TBG5 Step Up

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
skiff
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Re: TBG5 Step Up

#101

Unread post by skiff »

Yes: for one......me. The basic tenet of the 'edge' board design is to simply create a narrower board once it's up on plane, increasing speed, etc. It's a wider board at slower speeds for floatation and catching waves, but once it's up on plane, the board lifts up, and begins running on the narrower surface. I'm sure there's more to it than that............but that's how it's always been explained to me. Bob used to have a nice website and there may be some info on there? The design we worked up at L-41 has subtle elements of the edge board built into via the sharp chines in the forward half of the board, but it's subtle and I don't consider my boards true edge designs. I'm not sure if Bob Duncan still shapes boards, but he certainly did it for a very long time, so my guess is that he must have built a few edge prone boards in his day...there's a few enthusiasts of that method of waveriding in northern Santa Barbara County and he's always shaped for a lot of the guys that specialize up in that area.

Two issues ago I think the JOURNAL did a big piece on Rasta getting GG to shape him up an edge board, but the writing for me was so byzantine that I had a hard time absorbing it? But check back with that issue and it might show you revelations, at least as far as Greenough's design genius filters back through Rasta's brain.
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nomastomas
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Re: TBG5 Step Up

#102

Unread post by nomastomas »

Both SJ Vol24.5 and 21.6 offer insights to GG's edgeboard. Vol 24.5 is GG's description, sandwiched between the Rasta ride report. Interesting is that the video I saw of Rasta riding the 6-3 did not jive with his ride report. You can see the one big, full-rail bottom turn, but the rest of the surfing looked very akward and not particularly "flowing". It looked to me like he was fighting the board a lot. Maybe it was shot on a different day? Looking for some ideas for a finless p-board brought me to this design, although it seems GG almost always uses a single-fin.

GG talks a lot about how the narrow, concave in the area between the upper rail and the concave bottom, stating that this acts very similar to a deep-V bottom, with the concave rail-panel also adding lift. I built the Manta before being exposed to this thinking. But I can see some similarities. If I do another Manta, I will definitely put more concave in the center bottom panel, and leave a harder edge between it and the outboard panels. I put a little concave in both outboard panels, but I might add more. Right now I'm still waiting for some solid HH+ waves to really get a feel for the Manta's performance. Next week will be big but lots of gnarly weather as well.
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nomastomas
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Re: TBG5 Step Up

#103

Unread post by nomastomas »

Today, was a building swell day. I had the Manta out in some peaky, disorganized,6'-8', low-tide surf at my local point. Lots of bowl-ly, take-offs, followed by an unimpressive soft shoulder ending in the close-out section of the next peak down. Very steep take-offs and I took a couple of nosedives dropping in. I haven't been underwater that much in awhile. You know, when its like "hmmm, I've been under for some time now. Probably should start kicking back to the surface." I also had more than a few "skipping stone" experiences. There was some cross-chop, and the steep drops generated a lot of speed, especially if I pulled myself forward too soon. I quickly learned to allow my legs to drag a little on take-off which helped to keep the nose high and avoid catching too much speed on the drop.

I had the DVS Split-Keel fins in place, but wasn't happy with the performance. Speed was there, but felt too stiff. I switched to a 4.6 Front and 4.35 Rear as soon as I got home. This swell is supposed to peak-out Thu at 15'-20' but I'll be watching from the beach on that day :o Best wave of the day was an insider I caught on the way in. Not near as big, but more lined-up and workable. It supposed to rain tonight and all day tomorrow and Wed, so not likely surf-able until Fri.

I ran into SJB on the beach before paddling out. Always nice to see fellow p-board riders at the break. :D
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SJB
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Re: TBG5 Step Up

#104

Unread post by SJB »

I had the pleasure of seeing and holding the Manta yesterday. It truly is a work of art. The black matte finish gives it the look of a stealth bomber. Some high tech stuff going on. Looking forward to a test run soon.
Surf looks awesome today....but the rains have finally arrived.....and do we need rain. Now if the burn areas above the Freeway from the Solimar fire will hold all will be well.
In the meantime....happy to see Mother Earth is flushing this toilet.
To quote Rod...
"The sea doth wash away all human ills."
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nomastomas
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Re: TBG5 Step Up

#105

Unread post by nomastomas »

Sat I decided to give Pitas a try, so I waited for the tide to drop and paddled out about 11a. Pitas is what I would call a "high-performance" point-break wave, meaning that it's fast and steep, with barreling sections. It will hold its shape up to DOH, and as a result is predominantly a short-boarder's wave. The only catch is the tricky access. Faria campground sits at the very top of the point, and the campsites are protected by a 10'-12" rip-rap seawall. Immediately adjacent and to the south of the campground are 30 or more beach homes, each buttressed by concrete seawalls 15'-18' high. There is a gunite drainage ditch between the campground and the homes which is the only access point. The area immediately below the seawalls is composed of numerous waist-high boulders that were replaced long ago by the concrete seawalls. This talus field extends 20-30yds out from the sea walls. So, the tide has to be low enough such that the wave is not breaking on the boulders, but if too low, its you're forced to wade through the aforementioned boulders being careful not to break an ankle or leg, or break a fin. Coming in at low tide is miserable, especially if you are not wearing booties. Bigger days can also be quite punishing, when you add strong currents, and lots of whitewater to the mix. The good news is that the access difficulty keeps the crowd to a minimum, which is usually less than a dozen experienced surfers. Today was shoulder-high, and I shared the peak with 6 short-boarders. (note: easier access points do exist but require at least 150y paddle north against the current to get out, or a half-mile walk from the south, assuming the tide is low enough )

The Manta worked really well with the 4.6/4.3 quad set-up. It was a great opportunity to see how it would perform in hollower waves. My first experience at Pitas on a prone-board was the G2 with the Bonzer fins, and while that board had difficulty with the steepness, the Manta really liked taking the high line. But first, I had to correct a nasty habit of sliding forward immediately on drop-in that I must have picked-up surfing the slopey-er C St wave. After a couple of impromptu duck-dives, I was able to enjoy a some really long, fast rides, and even couple of close-out barrels.

I really enjoyed my session yesterday, both the venue and the board. Can't wait to hit it again later this week with some more size. So, with a return trip in mind, today I ordered a new set of fins with adjustable heel straps, that should allow me to wear my wetsuit booties. I know, they aren't "surfing" fins, but they have a very wide foot pocket and the blade is very close dimensionally to my Duck Feet. Reviewers complain that they are "too stiff", which suits me just find e. Sometimes ya gotta look at the big picture...
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Pitas Pt, low-tide summertime when there's still some sand.
Pitas Pt, low-tide summertime when there's still some sand.
PitasAerial.png (858.73 KiB) Viewed 2644 times
Telos Getaway
Telos Getaway
TelosFin.jpg (25.56 KiB) Viewed 2644 times
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nomastomas
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Re: TBG5 Step Up

#106

Unread post by nomastomas »

Added another session on the Manta in head-high waves. Discovered simple cure for "skipping stone" phenomenon, drag knees to slow down. Every planing hull wants to lift, and at high speeds, the lift can carry board and rider right off the surface of the water, especially with a little help from surface chop. End result is a loss of control. Slowing down is the anecdote. The key of course is to only slow enough to allow the board to regain contact with the water surface. My next experiment will be switching out the 4.6/4.3 fins for an even larger set (4.7/4.6). Funny thing, initially I was concerned about maxing-out speed, but now I find that the board is at times too fast.

Could it be that finless craft simply slide out of the power band, settling lower on the face and losing speed, but maintaining control? Similar to slipping the clutch in a car? Just musing here...
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bgreen
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Re: TBG5 Step Up

#107

Unread post by bgreen »

Nomas,

Thanks for the ride reports.

What qualifies as too fast? Sometimes it is fun seeing just how fast you can go. The issue is whether you are out-running fun sections. But going fast is a different way to experience a wave.

Finless boards need an edge /wave face. Full sections don't offer this as much, though some of the traditional Hawaiian paipo shapes were made to plane over deadspots.
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krusher74
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Re: TBG5 Step Up

#108

Unread post by krusher74 »

Glad the board has been working out for you. :D

In reference to your "excess of speed" this is something I found hen moving from a bodyboard to a fibreglass paipo. It took a while to harness the extra speed.

I also find when I give a local bodyborder my paipo for a wave or two, they usually come back and say "it's too fast!!"

I just now use the extra speed to go places on the wave I cant on a slower board. Typically on a bodyboard you stay in the middle of the wave a lot in full trim position trying to keep up, with my faster paipos i can now move around the wave more like a stand up surfer and do more full cutbacks.

You are just going to have to discover where that extra speed can take you on the wave.

I think the first thing i worked on was not doing angle take off and just blasting out on to the shoulder, instead doing straight take offs and deeper bottom turns and then into off the tops or under the lip turn. These are hard in the prone position as you cant rotate from the waist.

I will drag my knees as you mentioned to stall for a barrel.

Have fun with that extra speed! 8-)
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nomastomas
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Re: TBG5 Step Up

#109

Unread post by nomastomas »

krusher74 wrote:I think the first thing i worked on was not doing angle take off and just blasting out on to the shoulder, instead doing straight take offs and deeper bottom turns and then into off the tops or under the lip turn. These are hard in the prone position as you cant rotate from the waist.

Thanks, Keith...that makes a lot of sense to me. I'll give it go next time out.
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