Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
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Uncle Grumpy
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Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by Uncle Grumpy » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:20 pm

Thinned it way down, big roll in the nose, going into a deep central concave all the way out the tail..
IMGP3926.JPG
It's so thin I decided to glue a bamboo splint across grain in the tail.
IMGP3931.JPG
Probably at the minimum thickness for an unglassed wood board but it's strictly a small wave stick and I'm really looking forward to experiencing the increased flex of the much thinner board.
IMGP3936.JPG
I was running low on my salad bowl finish so the board got refinished with Boat Soup a catch all recipe that typically contains turps, linseed or tung oil and pine tar.

I've been sick for a week and will hopefully get myself and the reshaped board wet tomorrow........... :)
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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:18 pm

Lookin' good! "Anxiously awaiting" the ride report...

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by Uncle Grumpy » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:13 pm

Just got back from the beach.
The surf was about head high on the sets, actually bigger then I wanted for the first session on such a thin board but it was very clean and glassy so I paddled out at T street, the swell too much for the beach breaks.
Caught enough waves to report it's a much better ride now, although I'll probably reserve it for the smaller days....it's certainly in the outer limits of thinness for an unglassed, wood board but I really dig the increased flex.
I'm eager to try this style in some decent plywood.
I might consider a featherweight glass job as well :?:

I picked up a beautiful sneaky peak bomber left that had me deeply slotted from take off to kickout that I'll be playing in my head for weeks..... :D
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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:35 am

Gotta love those replays. And you can run them slomo with varied musical sound tracks. Just be careful while driving your car ;)

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by ULTIMATS » Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:28 am

Do you think its possible to laminate a few layers together to get a stiffer board for the same thickness or even thinner ?
Something like 10 or 12 layers of wood veneer with glass in between or maybe a foam core with the multiple veneer layers built up around the rails like on a Greenough spoon ?
....the wetter.....the better.....

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by Uncle Grumpy » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:47 am

ULTIMATS wrote:Do you think its possible to laminate a few layers together to get a stiffer board for the same thickness or even thinner ?
Something like 10 or 12 layers of wood veneer with glass in between or maybe a foam core with the multiple veneer layers built up around the rails like on a Greenough spoon ?
It's certainly possible.
It would also be very expensive and time consuming.
A sheet of decent veneer costs as much or more then a sheet of high end marine plywood.
If you have heaps of spare time and money, anything is possible........ ;)
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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:49 pm

Uncle Grumpy wrote:
ULTIMATS wrote:Do you think its possible to laminate a few layers together to get a stiffer board for the same thickness or even thinner ?
Something like 10 or 12 layers of wood veneer with glass in between or maybe a foam core with the multiple veneer layers built up around the rails like on a Greenough spoon ?
It's certainly possible.
It would also be very expensive and time consuming.
A sheet of decent veneer costs as much or more then a sheet of high end marine plywood.
If you have heaps of spare time and money, anything is possible........ ;)
If you wanted to go there, I would think the most efficient and functional way would be just build it like a GG spoon ie shape foam plug, glass bottom w/ 4-6 layers, shape out deck foam to final spoon shape and then glass deck. Fine tuning of glass thickness with grinder as needed...

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by Uncle Grumpy » Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:14 pm

GeoffreyLevens wrote: If you wanted to go there, I would think the most efficient and functional way would be just build it like a GG spoon ie shape foam plug, glass bottom w/ 4-6 layers, shape out deck foam to final spoon shape and then glass deck. Fine tuning of glass thickness with grinder as needed...
Right.
Instead of building the most simple and easy to make surfcraft that works well in any conditions and is made from naturally occuring material, make it into the hardest board shaping job there is, using all manner of resin and foam, ending up with a board that only works well in lined up juice. :lol:

If you really want to go there.
http://flexspoon.com/
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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by bgreen » Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:16 am

I recently met Dave Jackman who has been interviewed for the paipo interview series. At some stage, an updated interview will be posted, more photos and details about Dave's construction method.

He vacuum bagged a thin foam core inside a thin fibreglass shell. I think getting a very thin and stiff board is difficult. A thin layer of glass (or cloth fabric) over ply has been used in the past. The amount of flotation in relation to the thinness needs to be considered. If you have to kick/paddle against any significant current a super thin board will be hard work.

Bob
Last edited by bgreen on Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by Paipo Jim » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:08 am

bgreen wrote:If you have to kick/paddle against any significant current a super thin board will be hard work
You shouldn't be fighting currents but using them. And for getting under heavy whitewater; the lighter and thinner the better.

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by mrmike » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:19 am

thin is the best I get all the floation I need with my wetsuit 8-)

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by Uncle Grumpy » Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:48 pm

Well, I was really enjoying the way it rode and of course I knew it was only a matter of time until it happened but I was hoping it would be later rather then sooner...
IMGP3954.JPG
It split more or less along a grain line and I should be able to glue it back together without too much trouble.
I may try some sort of cross grain reinforcement but I really do like the multi directional flex.
It's almost like riding a stiff mat.
Need to build a similar board from plywood.
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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Sun Dec 11, 2011 1:24 pm

Plywood will hold up better for sure but that is why I mentioned fiber glass etc above. You want not only flex and memory but the ability to hold up under repeated flexing. Even glassed, any core will eventually break down. Greenough used balsa in the rails of his early spoons and I think eventually ended up with fairly dense pour foam as it was more resistant to breaking down under repeated flexing. The grain in the wood will start to come apart and it will get softer, more flexible with less snap-back and eventually break. A single layer of 4 oz glass will make it stiffer but also make it last much longer at a given amount of flexibility.

For experimenting though, plywood is the call, then if you get really hooked on the flex and want one to last, the next step would be materials exploration and dialing in the flex vs durability equation. Some people love that stuff, others hate it...

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by Paipo Jim » Sun Dec 11, 2011 2:11 pm

Using 5'x5' sheets of alternating cross grain Baltic Birch plywood with a light sheathing of 1.6 or 2 oz. tight weave, high thread count glass and some Resin Research epoxy for laminating the glass and as a sealant should be just the ticket.

I had a picture of just such a layup that I used as a replacement for the booger portion of a Body Gun up on the previous forum. With a proper lapping job it still going strong durability wise. I'll see if I can find a picture of it or maybe just take another.

Legit Baltic Birch ply that is glassed is great for longboard skateboards too. It can withstand many repeated flexes without losing its pop.

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by mrmike » Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:32 pm

uncle G use some dark wood bowties it will look like you ment to do it

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by bgreen » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:05 am

The theory is fine of using the current rather than fighting it, but the north NSW/south Qld points can get a sweep that runs south to north that just carries you away from the take-off area in seconds. Jump off the rocks and in a second you can be 100yards from where you started. Sometimes you can catch a wave and do the walkaround and jump off again, other times this isn't practical. Going wide works sometimes but usually it is struggle against the current if you want to surf. These longshore sweeps just keep on going. They are not rip currents.

No argument against thinner it is, easier to duckdive. There is of course a balance between ease of duck-diving and the ability to quickly get out of the whitewater etc. Again, depends where you are surfing and what sort of channel there is.

Bob

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by ULTIMATS » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:35 am

Uncle Grumpy wrote:
IMGP3954.JPG

:shock: theres a reason I like to go hi tech. ;)

Sad to see a beloved board in pain!
....the wetter.....the better.....

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:15 am

Uncle Grumpy wrote:
GeoffreyLevens wrote: If you wanted to go there, I would think the most efficient and functional way would be just build it like a GG spoon ie shape foam plug, glass bottom w/ 4-6 layers, shape out deck foam to final spoon shape and then glass deck. Fine tuning of glass thickness with grinder as needed...
Right.
Instead of building the most simple and easy to make surfcraft that works well in any conditions and is made from naturally occuring material, make it into the hardest board shaping job there is, using all manner of resin and foam, ending up with a board that only works well in lined up juice. :lol:

If you really want to go there.
http://flexspoon.com/
You can make something like this to work in any conditions you choose by adjusting how much foam you leave and the overall shape (template, hull depth, rail shape and thickness, rocker...)

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by Cuttlefish » Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:28 pm

bgreen wrote:The theory is fine of using the current rather than fighting it, but the north NSW/south Qld points can get a sweep that runs south to north that just carries you away from the take-off area in seconds. Jump off the rocks and in a second you can be 100yards from where you started. Sometimes you can catch a wave and do the walkaround and jump off again, other times this isn't practical. Going wide works sometimes but usually it is struggle against the current if you want to surf. These longshore sweeps just keep on going. They are not rip currents.

No argument against thinner it is, easier to duckdive. There is of course a balance between ease of duck-diving and the ability to quickly get out of the whitewater etc. Again, depends where you are surfing and what sort of channel there is.

Bob
Isn't that the truth Bob!
Looks like we are in for some fast moving sweeps with this up-coming swell.
There's times at Noosa where paddling a 9' gun against the current is a waste of energy so you can imagine what it would be like on an Alaia dear readers.
Only a rat can win the rat race.

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Re: Pirate Fish Alaia Remo II

Unread post by bgreen » Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:51 pm

and the chart's are looking promising for xmas.

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