TBG5

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
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rodndtube
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by rodndtube » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:09 pm

rodndtube wrote: The US is very low on the bodyboarding spectrum--it has substantially diminished over the past decade or two. I would also say the mainland USA surfing community is very segregated and antagonistic towards each other. I notice this especially with USA foot surfers bringing their attitudes to overseas countries.

A lot of the bodyboarders in PR have stringers. My son couldn't really ride his US boogie board down there because it would turn into mush.
There are not that many paipos/bellyboarders (or kneeboarders) for that matter, but they tend to become lumped in with bodyboarders (proneriders). Okay, we should include surf mats and maybe handboards, too. All of these folks are established minorities... and in some places are treated as such. Quite frankly, I don't encounter this "discrimination" in PR, CR and Hawaii. Not much in Northern Oregon nor in Central California. Along the Space Coast there just isn't much outside of SUPs, longboards and shortboards, but I have bumped into some paipo riders, including a hydrofoil paipo guy, over the years. I bumped into a paipo guy when I surfed one day in N. Oregon. So... what is all this rambling about here and this part of the thread? A shared experience riding prone and varying materials and design characteristics. I certainly welcome Nomas's design/shaping expertise--he is a student of the "conflict of design" and can speak intelligently about it as a shaper. But we are all learning all of the time and bring to our learning experience a set of our own biases and preferences based upon our own personal experiences and how we like to ride.

P.S. And, Nels, you better start a new thread on bodyboarding (boogie!) before I get into trouble!!! :lol:
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Nels
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by Nels » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:05 pm

Heh heh...sorry about the semi-hijack there, back to nomastomas and his TGB5 and onward...

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Re: TBG5

Unread post by CHRISPI » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:39 pm

Gee I fell so isolated, I did not realize I was such a minority??

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Re: TBG5

Unread post by belly rider » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:57 am

rodendtube comment I certainly welcome Nomas's design/shaping expertise--he is a student of the "conflict of design" and can speak intelligently about it as a shaper. But we are all learning all of the time and bring to our learning experience a set of our own biases and preferences based upon our own personal experiences and how we like to ride.

Hear Hear totally agree 150% well worded good statement
its all about the ride

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nomastomas
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by nomastomas » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:19 pm

Yeah, if you're not learning your not growing. Case in point: My Aussie customer raved about the improved performance of his new quad G5 when using only the rear fins. Now, this guy is an experienced body boarder who prone-rides in waves of consequence. I have to pay attention to his feedback. Prone boards are pretty much surfed and turned off the wave-side, rear corner. Makes sense that that is where the pivot point for turns should be. AND, why not enhance that twinnie set-up with a canard fin placed forward of the main fin, a.k.a. Twinzer? Had to try it....
G5_Twinzer_Small.JPG
G5_Twinzer_Small.JPG (151.82 KiB) Viewed 2870 times
Surf was pretty pathetic, but I got enough "facetime" to appreciate the possiblities. In smaller, crappy waves, like this test day, hold is not an issue while speed an responsiveness are. Board speed was probably equal to the quad set-up, but turns were quicker/snappier. Now I'm thinking that I should modify my quad set-ups to go with the larger fin in the rear and the smaller fin in the front. Use wave size to determine how much total fin area is needed for desired hold, and varying front and rear fin size according to desire for more responsiveness; much smaller front for more pivot-y feel, and just slightly smaller front for more drive and projection (But always keeping the largest fin in the rear).
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asier esnal
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by asier esnal » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:08 pm

When you see your keel system, it reminded me of the typical windsurfing mounts in the quad system. small fins front and big back.

there is a lot of information about this on the internet, it gives fresh air and many ideas to study other modalities

That paipo has a design that excites me. congratulations

in this photo also appears the system of 2 central fins, which has me crazy
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Nels
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by Nels » Mon Apr 30, 2018 12:02 am

Windsurfing is pretty near dead around me, couldn't tell you the last time I saw a windsurfer. Everything is kitesurfing. Until these posts I literally have never seen that particular 2 + 2 fin configuration.

Of course I'm a surf-hermit so that probably isn't good for expanding the horizons...

Nels

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Re: TBG5

Unread post by nomastomas » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:59 pm

This is a minor progression in the G5 line. I moved the twin fin cluster almost 1.5" towards the rear and added a set of FCS plugs to accommodate a "Nubster" or other trailing fin. The twin mods came from feedback I received from an Austrailian customer and the trailer was a request from a customer in Florida, who spent a lot of time on Twinnies in his "younger" pre-knee surgery days.
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nomastomas
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by nomastomas » Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:00 pm

Here is the G5 bottom and outline adapted to a 5-11 kneeboard. Owner liked it so much, that he ordered a second one with 1/4" less thickness. As a shaper, I really enjoy the applicability of this design. I could imagine a 5ft'er for you guys who enjoy the "mega" prone board approach.
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bgreen
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by bgreen » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:28 am

Hello Nomas,

How is the finless branch of the family tree going?

Bob

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nomastomas
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by nomastomas » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:17 am

Go to the FX thread for an update....
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by nomastomas » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:02 am

The G5 has become my goto board on OH+ days. Ease of duck-diving is the primary reason, and, with no need to get to my feet, steep and/or late take-offs are much more manageable. In the past, I've been plague by excessive lift in larger surf, but I think I've discovered a solution. It occurred to me that the planing efficiency of this shape, while beneficial in small waves, becomes detrimental in larger, more powerful waves. The mini-Simmons stand-up shape has the same issues. So, with this in mind, I decided to introduce more drag to the shape by increasing the fin size. I'm currently using True Ames Twin Fins (5.25"x5") placed in the read quad boxes of my G5, with a small 1" canard fin placed in the rear slot of the front fin box. My research showed no precise location for the canard fin, other than forward of the big fin and maybe an inch or so away. The idea remains the same: the canard cleans up the flow of water across the foiled side of the larger fin, reducing cavitation and loss of hold.
Twinzer.JPG
Twinzer-esque setup
Twinzer.JPG (104.35 KiB) Viewed 2063 times
My experience has been that the fin set up reduces skipping, almost eliminating it. It also reduces speed, bringing it down to a more manageable and controlled level. Instead of losing sight of every thing watery speed blur, punctuated by body slams, I was able to enjoy the ride. Turns are very pivoty and precise, as would be expected from the larger fin, set in the rear corner. Hold was excellent, allowing me to go anywhere on the wave face, for as long as I wanted. I also found that it was easier to get around any whitewater. Usually, if the wave breaks in front of me, I get stuck being pushed side-ways by the whitewater (really bad on the finless GFX) There was more opportunity to get back on the face with the large twin fins.
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rodndtube
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by rodndtube » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:16 am

Thank you for sharing the update.
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nomastomas
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by nomastomas » Tue May 14, 2019 12:21 pm

Here's the latest G5...it boasts a whopping 40L volume to accommodate a 300# rider. I had to exceed the prescribed length by 2 in in order to achieve the desired volume. Dimensions are 52" length, 23.5" width and 2.5" thick at centerline (thickness at rail is close to 3") Using Aku allows me to shape to very specific dimensions, including volume, while maintaining the G5's basic design features. While there is some distortion caused by the camera angle, the impact of increasing thickness does cause an increase in the depth of the beveled-rail concave. I don't beleive this will have any negative impact on performance.
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krusher74
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by krusher74 » Wed May 15, 2019 2:28 pm

It's hard to tell from the pictures but with those tail concaves does the G5 have a lot of tail rocker?

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nomastomas
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by nomastomas » Wed May 15, 2019 8:01 pm

Not an easy question to answer....about 1" at the centerline. But, then there is a great deal of "V" in the tail, so there is a lot more rocker out at the rail. A board with no rocker is fast, but resists turning. The rider has to weigh the tail to bring the rail out of the water in order to turn. Weighing the tail causes the board to stall and loose speed. Rocker makes the board easier to turn because the curve automatically frees the nose rail. Some would argue that V isn't needed in such a small shape, but I've found that it really shortens the turning radius. With a board that has no V, the rocker out at the rail is identical to the rocker at the centerline. But, what V does is to progressively increase the rocker at the rail so that the farther the board goes over on rail, the more rocker curve and the tighter the turnin. The concaves become progressively deeper as they extend through the tail. I'm sure this would also change the rocker curve as the board is rolled over onto the rail.
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bgreen
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by bgreen » Thu May 16, 2019 5:47 am

Here's another approach to riding choppy waves:

https://www.swellnet.com/news/design-ou ... -stop-four

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krusher74
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by krusher74 » Thu May 16, 2019 11:07 am

Tomas: was just trying to compare rocker to my own designs seeing mine have about 1/4" yours at 1" would be a lot to me, I wonder how much tail rocker a bodyboard bends to from its static 0.

I can't say I have really noticed the chop/skipping think at all, either my boards don't do it, I dampen it with my shoulder or I just don't perceive it.

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nomastomas
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by nomastomas » Thu May 16, 2019 11:43 am

I don't believe that rocker has anything directly to do with lift. If anything, rocker slows a board down when going in a straight line. Your shapes tend to be smaller (less planing area) than mine. You may have come upon a combination of volume and planing area for your weight that, while fast, doesn't generate enough speed to lift the board and you out of the water. That's what I'm trying to achieve with the G6. I suspect that your new groveler will skip in larger waves.
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krusher74
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Re: TBG5

Unread post by krusher74 » Thu May 16, 2019 1:24 pm

nomastomas wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 11:43 am
I don't believe that rocker has anything directly to do with lift. If anything, rocker slows a board down when going in a straight line. Your shapes tend to be smaller (less planing area) than mine. You may have come upon a combination of volume and planing area for your weight that, while fast, doesn't generate enough speed to lift the board and you out of the water. That's what I'm trying to achieve with the G6. I suspect that your new groveler will skip in larger waves.
So do stand up boards skip (larger planning area), or Is that dampened with bending of the knees? i feel if you flowing along on rail you are not on a lrge enough flat area to skip, I have seen video of Greenough skipping horribly on his spoon. its looked like the large amount of nose belly just made that think rear up like a boat and take off,like when you try to go fast in a speed boat in choppy seas

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