Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
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krusher74
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Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by krusher74 » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:57 pm

As nels had started discussion on the stagnation of design in bodyboards in another thread I thought i would restart that discussion here.

Nels said "As one who has been involved since the 70's it has been no end of frustration that the designs have stayed so near to the original"

So has it stayed so similar to the original because that was the best design? Water is water and we are roughly the same sized people. So the task of the board isnt changing and there isnt a new problem to be solved.

I would actually say that have changed a lot take a look at NO1 (47" by 25")

here are some recent variations on the design

There is also a fund raiser for Mr moray if anyones interested https://www.youcaring.com/tommorey-929933
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by Pes78 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:36 pm

I like the yellow bottom board. Is the stagnation of the bodyboard based on the materials used and how they're made? I think Toobs is the only bodyboard company making boards here. Don't want to make it a political statement here but I will. The problem is these companies want to make the most money they can make on each board, firewire's markup is huge and the way they flood the shops with boards is nuts. Also the majority of people are sheep and just want to go with the crowd. Heck I'm glad I found this site otherwise not sure what I would be doing in regards to shaping. Krusher your boards are close to a bodyboard shape and that works for you. I'm getting lost in my thoughts now. I like different. I seek out weird boards. My latest is a pretty safe shape because I was trying to keep it simple. My bodypo I shaped I said to myself that I wanted to shape something that was out of the norm of what was being shaped. Maybe it's just as simple as saying "don't try to reinvent the wheel"?

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by Nels » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:19 am

So has it stayed so similar to the original because that was the best design? Water is water and we are roughly the same sized people. So the task of the board isnt changing and there isnt a new problem to be solved.
That may be "it" in a nutshell with regard to the bodyboard. The materials and construction are applicable to standup boards as well as bellyboards/paipos. Perhaps there just isn't that much "change" to be had.

That gets a bit tough to take for some geezers like me who were around for standup surfing's shortboard revolution. Seeing magic happen once maybe spoils the expectations further on.

I have thought that some kind of cosmetic customization for bodyboards might freshen the odd whiff of staleness...it's that or endless travel for different waves and that just isn't always realistic to do. All about finding balance I guess...just like any other form of surfing. Sticking with something long after most compatriots have drifted off or worse creates challenges..."first world problems" to be sure...

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by nomastomas » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:17 am

Also to be considered is the nature of the materials used in construction. Extruded Polypropylene (EPP) is an extremely pliable and durable material. EPP foam has a rubbery quality; it bends but doesn't break. Most abrasives bounce over it. It is much harder to shape than Polyurethane (PU) or Expanded Polystyrene (EPS) foams. The band saw has replaced the hot-wire as the weapon of choice to do the bulk of the shaping. It is both difficult (some would say impossible) and time-consuming to shape compound curves with a straight-edge tool. The end result is no round rails, or convex/concave bottoms, or convex-to-flat-to-concave bottoms, or concave decks. (Note: the small rounded channels found on the tails of some BBs are the one exception) I marvel at the construction techniques of the modern body board builder; various density polyvinyl sheeting, heat produced bonding, carbon fiber tubing, etc. But, in the end, the shaper has to make do without multiple compound curves or a static rocker curve, and with the unavoidable flex. True, there can be a positive side to flat surfaces, variable rocker and flex, and the modern body board rider has learned to exploit these "features".

In the end, there are many ways to get from Point A to Point B in the water.
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by Nels » Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:36 pm

Also to be considered is the nature of the materials used in construction...But, in the end, the shaper has to make do without multiple compound curves or a static rocker curve, and with the unavoidable flex.
Yeah, that's all true with bodyboards. Maybe it's an insurmountable divide when it comes to crossover with the paipo world, certainly a commercial chasm to deal with.

For me it's all surfing...if you ride waves, you surf. The bodyboard world is the closest thing to the paipo world. I can't put it into words but it seems to me there is some kind of opportunity in there, some kind of potential as yet untapped. I'm clueless, maybe it's materials or maybe design...or maybe it's no big thing anyway.

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by Nels » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:38 am

Just to blur the lines, muddy the waters, or let business travelers sneak in a few...the inflatable bodyboard!

https://www.surfertoday.com/bodyboardin ... -hubboards

First one I saw was from Sea Eagle a couple of years ago, found this last night, and there's a couple of others on Amazon. There are a couple of action shots on the video below the article.

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:09 am

Does look like the Boogmat is plenty stiff in juice waves. Could be fun in small surf and certainly easy to transport!

Looks like maybe does not roll up. Just maybe gets flatter
https://hubboards.com/collections/board ... 6615377283
The Hubb Lite Large Boog Mat has an inflatable core crafted with durable drop-stitch technology. Flex can easily be adjusted through air pressure to match conditions. Includes air pump, repair kit and carrying bag.

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by Nels » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:04 pm

Looks like maybe does not roll up. Just maybe gets flatter
I don't know for sure, but that construction for paddleboards does roll up...just not like modern surf mats. Would go into a thicker roll. Still, smaller and easier to travel with than a real bodyboard or paipo. Inflated...well, jury is out as far as performance although nobody seems to claim they "work as well as". When riverboarding was still a thing in the U.S. there were a couple of inflatables using this drop-stitch construction that manufacturers considered so strong they were advertised as multi use - also as sleeping pads.

Personally I would see something like this for sneaky business travel where you might want to score a few waves in the to and fro without anybody knowing. I did that in the past with a regular bodyboard and it was a bit of a challenge to hide the BB, always easier with bodysurfing.

Maybe modern world-wide surf travel has made all that moot. Rentals seem everywhere, except for a paipo...which puts us back into the bring your own deal...

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by rodndtube » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:44 pm

Nels wrote: Maybe modern world-wide surf travel has made all that moot. Rentals seem everywhere, except for a paipo...which puts us back into the bring your own deal...
The biggest thing is paipo surf travel, IMO, is airline baggage rules, both for the number of bags and the potential fees. The number of bags had more to do with weight management and travel ease, keeping work clothes separated from surf boards and gear and weight manageable (one doesn't want to be manhandling 75 lb. bags). Regarding work travel for me the surf gear wasn't really a big issue as the fees were waived -- it is for personal travel that so many challenges are in the mix.

And, true, one just can't find paipo rentals!!!
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:08 am

rodndtube wrote:And, true, one just can't find paipo rentals!!!
Though I have seen several people kneeling and prone riding full sized, old school long boards and actually ripping smallish surf on them. Probably not doable in really big waves...

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by flojo » Mon Apr 30, 2018 1:39 am

52” bodyboard on Toobs website
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by rodndtube » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:58 am

Very different from the typical bodyboard (in my eyes, recognizing cognitive self-unawareness which is especially acute when looking at surf mats!). The lines are so straight, no typical crescent tail. How wide is the board and are the rails square or 60/40, 40/60?
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by asier esnal » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:59 am

I do not know if they are too big to use as paipo, but they are too small to be used as surfboards. in case you do not know them

https://www.softechsoftboards.com/rocke ... -softboard
https://www.softechsoftboards.com/rocke ... -softboard

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by flojo » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:30 pm

Hi Asier-Regarding those soft boards you just posted about- I have the Rocket 50( 4 ft 2 inch). I use it as a paipo and
Have a lot of fun with it. It catches waves easily and is fast. I removed the keel fins that came with it and replaced
Them with small fins which are stiffer.

But I am no expert or purist...I just do what’s fun for me.

Flojo

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by flojo » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:49 pm

Hey Rod, I am in the central California coast on a vacation and stopped by the Toobs factory to get
Some answers to your questions. I took some photos also.
The board is 22.5 at it widest point and tapers to
21.75 at the tail.
You can see the rails in the attached photo.

It also has a real nose rocker.
In person, to me, it looks like the tail is so wide it would slide around a lot.
I like fairly parallel rails so the shape itself appeals to me if
I added some small fins on the tail.

Retails at $299.

Flojo
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by rodndtube » Tue May 01, 2018 4:26 pm

Flojo, thanks for the info. Real rocker for sure, wow, I wasn't expecting that. Those are parallel rails and a wide tail, at least for me, and even with small fins would seem to be a stiff turner although maybe there is a lot of flex throughout the board. What small stiff fins did you use?
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by flojo » Tue May 01, 2018 11:39 pm

Rod, the board I looked at was pretty stiff-it had some kind of carbon mesh imbedded in it as well as stringers.

My comment about adding fins was only speculation—I did not buy this board...I was just curious about it.

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by Nels » Wed May 02, 2018 1:34 am

I believe the carbon mesh and stringers both have some flex and recoil...both are there to stiffen the board and protect from creasing (bodyboard version of breaking). As to the shape I think a clue may come from the model name: Soap Bar. Looks inspired by the Tyler Warren Bar of Soap model, itself of the mini-simmons lineage. Pure speculation though.

Image

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by zensuni » Tue May 15, 2018 1:59 am

flojo wrote:Hi Asier-Regarding those soft boards you just posted about- I have the Rocket 50( 4 ft 2 inch). I use it as a paipo and
Have a lot of fun with it. It catches waves easily and is fast. I removed the keel fins that came with it and replaced
Them with small fins which are stiffer.

But I am no expert or purist...I just do what’s fun for me.

Flojo
I got a Softech 48" rocket fuel model recently, my son uses it for standup surfing occasionnaly.
It is quite stiff and very floatty, I tested it prone in small waves only.
I was hopping a "longboard effect" that would help in small waves, but that was not really the case.
Actually, it gave the best in some hollow waves using it as a kneeboard, lot of fun since the kneels allowed to do some radical turns.
Having said that I think the classic bodyoard / paipo smaller shape works best for prone surfing, even in small waves.

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

Unread post by krusher74 » Mon May 28, 2018 8:02 am

Its interesting to see how the average size paipo is viewed/owned and then projected on to bodyboards.

95% of bodyboards for 30 years have been in the 40-42" size range. Shaped and designed by many (some multi) world champions.

The extra 5-10"s a lot of you guys would add to them would give them more volume and planing area (catch waves easier) but make them much harder to manoeuvre. Basically they same as a stand up surfer being on a 6.6 in bigger waves but wishes it would turn like his 5.11.

The bodyboard does also not function well as a "longboard" as it much harder to distribute weight towards the nose and tail of the board when needed.

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