44.25 paipo

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
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nomastomas
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#11

Unread post by nomastomas »

Short answer is yes, but McKee goes into great detail regarding the various FCS templates and How they function in quad set ups.
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#12

Unread post by nomastomas »

There's almost too much information on fin template combinations. McKee uses the FCS fin nomenclature to help identify potential quad fin sets. Its a little tricky at first, but once you realize x3 fins are small, x5 fins are medium and x7 fins are large it's a bit easier to understand. So, M5 fins and G5 fins are the same template. in different material composition. GX or GS fins are longboard side bites. He also discusses fins with different foils, e.g asymmetric flat, 80/20, 60/40, and when to use symmetric 50/50 center fins. Many third party fin makers (True Ames, Shaper Australia to name two) use some variation of the FCS nomenclature to identify their "2-tab" fin-base fins, so the rider is not restricted to just FCS branded fins. His Quadra Formula is pretty specific, although he has tables for shortboards, longboards and kneeboards. Because unlike Futures, which require a shallow 1/2" rear fin box to accommodate Future quad fin sets instead of the Future standard 3/4" box, FCS and other "2-tab" fins can be taken from any tri-fin set or LB side bite set, new or used. (just stay away from FCS II) Additionally, FCS Fusion fin boxes can be ordered in 0-deg, 5-deg and 9-deg cant setting. All in all, plenty of ways to customize and dial-in your ride.
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#13

Unread post by asier esnal »

I have been making tables for 3 years, all with fcs fusion, I do not like neither future nor fcs2. I have many fins from my surfboards, I like to do tests, that's why I have no problems

Surfboards I have quite clear the position of the keels, in normal boards, I have done quite rare things with doubts, but in general, I have no problems

is costing me, accept the concepts of board a paipo, I always have the feeling that I need longer measures to put the ideas I have, to design them I feel shrunken and there are doubts
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#14

Unread post by asier esnal »

Today in waves that close with force I have had a very strong blow against the horned paipo, I've done enough damage, I'm fine.

has made me rethink the design and make this paipo without fins, I'm thinking of a smooth design but with channels that allow me to run the paced without slipping
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#15

Unread post by rodndtube »

asier esnal wrote:Today in waves that close with force I have had a very strong blow against the horned paipo, I've done enough damage, I'm fine.

has made me rethink the design and make this paipo without fins, I'm thinking of a smooth design but with channels that allow me to run the paced without slipping
Yes, if what you are saying means something like powerful shore break then hard boards, fins and point tails (horns) can put one at risk.

The term for the tail shape as "horns" keeps throwing me for a loop, however, because of one paipo rider who uses horns as handles for his boards. See the interview here:
https://mypaipoboards.org/interviews/Pa ... 0813.shtml
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#16

Unread post by krusher74 »

asier esnal wrote:Today in waves that close with force I have had a very strong blow against the horned paipo, I've done enough damage, I'm fine.

has made me rethink the design and make this paipo without fins, I'm thinking of a smooth design but with channels that allow me to run the paced without slipping
Remember water likes to stick to a rounded surface and break from a hard edge so you dont want hard channels.

My finless design has enough hold for a hard bottom turn on a 10ft wave you are welcome to the CNC cut file if you would like to look at it.
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#17

Unread post by asier esnal »

rodndtube thank you very much for the information, the work of Paul Witzig is very curious, I really liked it and I had a lot of fun, it has to be a great person, with a very restless head

  krusher74 I'm going to do all rounded edges, I do not want hard songs, I'll look for a good grip on the waves, the type of turn is what worries me the least, the winter waves are going to be very hard, surf with very little flow
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#18

Unread post by asier esnal »

I already have the paipo carved in eps, these photos are not of the finished process. but it is already complete. has a clear influence of the bodyboard vs QuadConcave


Now I have to laminate fiberglass.

  but I have left the eps with a very good flex and I'm sorry to have to put resin and fabric so that it stays like a hard stone, with hardly any flex and when I hit my head it hurts me

Is there any other alternative to fiberglass? give a latex cover, or some other sealant to avoid deriving that flex and that does not have water? Could you laminate only one face and give an insulating product? This is the first time that I consider alternatives

I have found a product called polyurea, but it has been impossible for me to buy in small quantities. any ideas? There has to be something alternative to the typical products of surfboards

forgive for the cleanliness of the room, these days is being crazy, I have not finished this period and I already have 2 surfboards to do, apart from my work and family, I do not have almost time to enter the water

if you are curious about the closet you see in the photo is for curing uv polyester, made with the lamps of a solarium
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asier esnal
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#19

Unread post by asier esnal »

I have applied white glue to the paipo, pva, so I can now laminate with uv polyester without the eps falling out, careful to seal, a pore will ruin all the work of shape. this is a trick of the 70s

but I still do not want to give polyester or fiberglass
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#20

Unread post by asier esnal »

How can I paste this to the paipo? I've seen bodyboard videos that apply heat, but those plates have a tail already prepared to just heat and paste? the eps I do not think it can hold so much heat

it's happening to me, laminate fiber l apart from below and paste some of this up

PE polyethylene is compatible with polyester?


Decks
You guessed correctly! The deck is the material on a bodyboard that you lie on. The usual configuration for deck material is 8lb (density per inch) PE (polyethylene). PE decks are soft and flexible just like PE Cores but, similarly, after time they’re unable to find their original shape. Indentations and creases in areas under pressure also develop quickly in PE decks.

Manufacturers are looking at ways to stop this happening but some riders prefer their boards a little warn in, with elbow divots through continued use and mellow deck creases.

The alternative to a PE deck is known as crosslink, a thinner 6lb cell structure that absorbs less water whilst being more durable but it tends to be far stiffer. This is often used on boards in the £100 and under price bracket as it’s slightly cheaper to produce. If you purchase one of these numbers be aware it requires more wax for traction, this is due to its vinyl feel and touch. The type of deck you will get really comes down to budget.
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#21

Unread post by asier esnal »

paipo finished and ready to enter the water
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#22

Unread post by bgreen »

It will be interesting to hear your experience. I rode this board a few times.
Garrett2.jpg
Garrett5.jpg
It was fun on fuller, down the line waves, but it didn't hold an edge in a tube as well as my current board. The board is a lot thicker than it looks - about 3".
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#23

Unread post by krusher74 »

bgreen wrote:It will be interesting to hear your experience. I rode this board a few times.
Garrett2.jpg
Garrett5.jpg
It was fun on fuller, down the line waves, but it didn't hold an edge in a tube as well as my current board. The board is a lot thicker than it looks - about 3".
That's an extreme one! :o

I see a lot of boards with a big deck scoop for the person to lie centrally in, I think it misunderstood a lot that to hold the rail/edge on a bodyboard/finless paipo you really get your weight over the rail as much as possible, I have my hip/elbow right over on the rail when riding, I think these deck scoop that pushes riders into a more central riding position without the help of fins really hinder rail traction
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#24

Unread post by asier esnal »

krusher74: that is a comment that has surprised me, I have never taken into account: I have my hip / elbow right over on the rail when riding
for this in the design I think about the shape of the channels that do the grip function.

a friend will give me a bodyboard in good condition, I will enter, for a while, with the in the water and rethink the designs based on your recommendation
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#25

Unread post by asier esnal »

I've been using this paipo for a few days. I can say that I am not very comfortable with him. the channels seem not to make too much effect, I've had a few unexpected skids. It has too much volume in the nose, makes it float a lot in this part and I have trouble reading and it does not go parallel to the water, I do not know if it is because of the nose but it bounces a lot, I catch a wave and I give more jumps than a frog surrounded of mosquitoes. I'm really not liking

possible improvements?

1) the channels in a distance as short as a paipo almost do not execute, unless they are too exacted what brakes the whole, better to take up the idea of ​​ends

2) thinner rails, I've done a lot of recess in the center to mold the body, and as I have to put the foam somewhere move it to the sides, SheeeeIIIIItttttt, better part gives more flat and finer rails

3) outline? puf in this I do not have anything clear and I need your advice for the next model I'm considering making some design type to those of nomastomas, http://mypaipoboards.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=775 first picture paipo medium

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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

#26

Unread post by rodndtube »

There have been several evolutions in the board since the first description (e.g., the thread title still says quad fins). Please provided updated specifications including nose and tail rockers.
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Re: 44.25 paipo

#27

Unread post by asier esnal »

true, forgive. At first, the idea was to make a paipo with 4 keels, but when trying an earlier design I decided not to put ends and make channels, following the second plane that collects, I also put it here below

I do not have planes of nose and tail rockers. for the first paipo I cut 2 tables with stringer shape and are the ones I use to be born the roquer, since I found it from the beginning a very successful way, I use the technique of cutting by hot wire for eps

in the photo below you can see the paipo roker, tail plane and 2.7 in the nose that gives me a good speed but I have not had a chance to nail in the nose. removing a model that I did the rest have been relatively short, compared to the ones that you do

Image
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Re: 44.25 paipo

#28

Unread post by zensuni »

I'm not a shaper, although here's my theory: the rails are very tick and rounded, so it makes it difficult to bite the wave face. Also, the board is wide but not that long, so you don't have much rail surface to bite the wave.
Regarding the chop, the tickness and the buyancy don't help either. A thin, not buoyant board works better in the chop, cause it just pierces it instead of rebounding on it, resulting in more water projections in your face but a less bumpy ride.
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Re: 44.25 paipo

#29

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

A little convex/roundness, under nose can also go a long ways towards smoothing chop. I too thought rails looked a bit thick. OK for very small, weak waves but would indeed tend to slide out in any juice or steep
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Re: 44.25 paipo

#30

Unread post by nomastomas »

The way I see it, the typical prone board outline coupled with a relatively flat bottom is a very efficient planing surface. Volume (typically derived through adjustments in thickness) needs to be modulated to match wave size and power, and rider weight. Bottom contours, fins, deck contours, rail shape, etc should not be considered until the basic outline and volume has been determined. I always go back to the tried and true foam body board as the baseline. They are readily available. Ride one in the waves conditions you prefer, and decide what you like and/or don't like about the ride. Then, design a shape that has the features you believe will enhance the ride. Just don't make too many changes at once. My G5 design didn't just appear out of thin air. It was the end result of five major design changes, with multiple design "tweaks" in between, over the course of 10yrs. It requires patience and time in the water to develop a functional surfcraft. Take your time, understand how surfcraft function, always "know" why a design feature works, or strive to understand why it doesn't, be methodical in your approach (Larry Goddard-esque).
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