Pin-tail alaia?
-
- Wave slider
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 12:05 pm
- City: San Diego-ish
- State or Province: California
- Country: USA
Pin-tail alaia?
Has anybody tried to build a pin-tail alaia? I've searched the web, but I've never seen one. Does that mean it's not worth doing, or that nobody's bothered to do it yet?
- Asanagoo
- Tube master
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:50 pm
- City: Grand Rapids
- State or Province: MI
- Country: USA
- Location: 3rd Coast
Re: Pin-tail alaia?
My limited understanding of design history is that alaia, generally being about 6 to 12 feet need more of a wide square tail for speed and control. A wood plank board with a pin tail would generally necessitate more length - 13 feet or more, making it an olo or paddleboard. Of course these are very old guidelines and they are open for re-interpretation, especially given newer material options and so on, but you're still up against many many generations of r&d! I may have seen an alaia on youtube that had a rounded tail, but I'm not sure. I personally am thinking about making a "hot curl" influenced alaia over the winter.
http://www.islanderpaddler.com/storage/ ... 3320345538
http://www.islanderpaddler.com/storage/ ... 3320345538
- Uncle Grumpy
- Big Wave Charger
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:57 pm
- City: San Clemente
- State or Province: California
- Country: USA
- Interests: Surfing, Surfboards, Surf History, Fishing, Boats, Dogs, Books
- Contact:
Re: Pin-tail alaia?
The Pintail shape is relatively slow but tracks well.
That is why the shape is often employed on boards for really big or really fast waves, in order to help control speed.
IMNSFHO There's not enough length or thickness in a proper alaia to accommodate a pintail.
There are pintail paipos such as Grain's "The Leaf", They describe it:
The narrow tail has increased thickness to add buoyancy and paddling power. Designed for large powerful waves, most people would ride this board prone, but skilled surfers have been known to surf it standing up.
The tail on these boards is nearly 3 inches thick....[/size]
That is why the shape is often employed on boards for really big or really fast waves, in order to help control speed.
IMNSFHO There's not enough length or thickness in a proper alaia to accommodate a pintail.
There are pintail paipos such as Grain's "The Leaf", They describe it:
The narrow tail has increased thickness to add buoyancy and paddling power. Designed for large powerful waves, most people would ride this board prone, but skilled surfers have been known to surf it standing up.
The tail on these boards is nearly 3 inches thick....[/size]
Last edited by Uncle Grumpy on Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
Paipo surfer in repose,
Nose on the nose,
No grunting he-man pose.
See how fast he goes!
What is it he knows?
Nose on the nose,
No grunting he-man pose.
See how fast he goes!
What is it he knows?
- bgreen
- Big Wave Charger
- Posts: 1232
- Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:17 pm
- City: Brisbane
- State or Province: Qld
- Country: Oz
- Contact:
Re: Pin-tail alaia?
Closest I have seen is some of Mr Mike's slim tail boards. They'll be in the archives but searching for Mr.Mike will bring up lots of hits.
I think the point made about needing a reasonably wide tail is a fair one. The corners are your edge to hold in and what you turn from. If you had a short pintail there would not be a lot of volume to float you.
The other consideration is that pintails are designed to ride certain types of waves.
If you were so inclined why not make an ordinary alaia and progressively narrow the outline and see what difference there is in performance. You could only practically do this with an oiled rather than resin/fibreglass coated board.
Bob
I think the point made about needing a reasonably wide tail is a fair one. The corners are your edge to hold in and what you turn from. If you had a short pintail there would not be a lot of volume to float you.
The other consideration is that pintails are designed to ride certain types of waves.
If you were so inclined why not make an ordinary alaia and progressively narrow the outline and see what difference there is in performance. You could only practically do this with an oiled rather than resin/fibreglass coated board.
Bob
-
- Big Wave Charger
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:36 pm
- City: coronado
- State or Province: ca
- Country: United States
Re: Pin-tail alaia?
you mean like this. I made this one about a year ago out of some lighting struck poplar. good on bigger slower waves
-
- Wave slider
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:17 pm
- City: sydney
- State or Province: nsw
- Country: australia
Re: Pin-tail alaia?
My bellyboard is closest in outline to example #3 though the tail is stepped down aft of twin fins to 3/4 inch thick. Design dates from 65. It turns well and is certainly not slow!
- Uncle Grumpy
- Big Wave Charger
- Posts: 450
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:57 pm
- City: San Clemente
- State or Province: California
- Country: USA
- Interests: Surfing, Surfboards, Surf History, Fishing, Boats, Dogs, Books
- Contact:
Re: Pin-tail alaia?
Alaia are by definition, old style, wooden surfboards.
Nowhere in the quiver of the ancient surfers do you see pintails or pointed noses.
These don't appear on surfboards until well into the 20th century.
Although there is a wide spectrum of tail shapes, most are variations of the following fundamental tail designs.
Basic Tail Shapes
Pin Tail Surfboard
This is designed for maximum traction and control on the wave. Pin tails have the narrowest width of all the tails. Less width minimizes the tail's surface area allowing you to sink and dig into the water causing the board to track and maintain direction. Notice the shape is a straighter curved line that converges to a point, thus called the pin tail. This design gives you maximum water flow without any abrupt release for better hold. Pintails can be difficult to maneuver and are not ideal for small waves where tail surface area is needed for lift. That is why you typically find these pin tails on guns. When you're dropping into a large wave, tracking and control in high speeds is more important than maneuverability.
Round Tail Surfboard
This shape is similar to a pin tail because it allows water to wrap around its contour for better traction than the square tail in bigger, faster, hollow waves. It is more versatile with more width than the pin tail. The added width increases the surface area and results in more lift. More lift allows the board to be more loser and turnable than its pin tail counterpart. With the curve shape you should expect more round, drawn out turns and less sharper, pivotal turns than its square tail counterpart. The added surface area will also provide more speed in slow spots.
Squash Tail Surfboard
The most common tail among shortboards is a squash tail, which is a variation of the square tail. The square or edgier shape allows for quick release. This makes the board very responsive and easier for sharper and looser turns. The shape allows for more width, which increases the surface area in the tail. More surface area means more lift, or easier to plane and maintain speed. This will obviously come in handy in the slower spots of a wave. Less surface area will cause the tail to sink or bite into the wave, making it ideal for control and tracking in high speeds. The rounded ends give the board more hold than a hard edge square tail. A squash tail is very versatile as it is designed to give you better control in steeper and bigger waves as well as softer waves.
Swallow Tail Surfboard
Notice the shape of a swallow tail resembles two miniature pin tails joined together side-by-side. Its design is similar to the pintail in that the two points will give the board more hold and traction. The upside down vee that is cut out of the tail allows for bite and control when the board is going in and out of turns. Notice the shape allows for a much wider tail and larger surface area, making it easier to maintain speeds in softer parts of the wave. This is more ideal for smaller waves, which is why a fish will typically have a very pronounced swallow tail. The wider and more pronounced the swallow tail, the stiffer it is in transition from rail to rail. When making radical changes in direction, the pin of one side has to disengage before the tail can reengage on the other pin to pivot.
Square Tail Surfboard
The square tail is the earliest surfboard tail design and the parent of all other tail designs. The square tail is wide and helps ad stability to a surfboard. Because of the extra width in the tail though, the surfboard will have less curve in the rails. The corners of a square tail dig into a wave while turning and help increase the ability of a surfboard to make pivotal turns. You will most often see a square tail on a longboard, though some shortboards have a smaller version.
Nowhere in the quiver of the ancient surfers do you see pintails or pointed noses.
These don't appear on surfboards until well into the 20th century.
Although there is a wide spectrum of tail shapes, most are variations of the following fundamental tail designs.
Basic Tail Shapes
Pin Tail Surfboard
This is designed for maximum traction and control on the wave. Pin tails have the narrowest width of all the tails. Less width minimizes the tail's surface area allowing you to sink and dig into the water causing the board to track and maintain direction. Notice the shape is a straighter curved line that converges to a point, thus called the pin tail. This design gives you maximum water flow without any abrupt release for better hold. Pintails can be difficult to maneuver and are not ideal for small waves where tail surface area is needed for lift. That is why you typically find these pin tails on guns. When you're dropping into a large wave, tracking and control in high speeds is more important than maneuverability.
Round Tail Surfboard
This shape is similar to a pin tail because it allows water to wrap around its contour for better traction than the square tail in bigger, faster, hollow waves. It is more versatile with more width than the pin tail. The added width increases the surface area and results in more lift. More lift allows the board to be more loser and turnable than its pin tail counterpart. With the curve shape you should expect more round, drawn out turns and less sharper, pivotal turns than its square tail counterpart. The added surface area will also provide more speed in slow spots.
Squash Tail Surfboard
The most common tail among shortboards is a squash tail, which is a variation of the square tail. The square or edgier shape allows for quick release. This makes the board very responsive and easier for sharper and looser turns. The shape allows for more width, which increases the surface area in the tail. More surface area means more lift, or easier to plane and maintain speed. This will obviously come in handy in the slower spots of a wave. Less surface area will cause the tail to sink or bite into the wave, making it ideal for control and tracking in high speeds. The rounded ends give the board more hold than a hard edge square tail. A squash tail is very versatile as it is designed to give you better control in steeper and bigger waves as well as softer waves.
Swallow Tail Surfboard
Notice the shape of a swallow tail resembles two miniature pin tails joined together side-by-side. Its design is similar to the pintail in that the two points will give the board more hold and traction. The upside down vee that is cut out of the tail allows for bite and control when the board is going in and out of turns. Notice the shape allows for a much wider tail and larger surface area, making it easier to maintain speeds in softer parts of the wave. This is more ideal for smaller waves, which is why a fish will typically have a very pronounced swallow tail. The wider and more pronounced the swallow tail, the stiffer it is in transition from rail to rail. When making radical changes in direction, the pin of one side has to disengage before the tail can reengage on the other pin to pivot.
Square Tail Surfboard
The square tail is the earliest surfboard tail design and the parent of all other tail designs. The square tail is wide and helps ad stability to a surfboard. Because of the extra width in the tail though, the surfboard will have less curve in the rails. The corners of a square tail dig into a wave while turning and help increase the ability of a surfboard to make pivotal turns. You will most often see a square tail on a longboard, though some shortboards have a smaller version.
Paipo surfer in repose,
Nose on the nose,
No grunting he-man pose.
See how fast he goes!
What is it he knows?
Nose on the nose,
No grunting he-man pose.
See how fast he goes!
What is it he knows?
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests