New board

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
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bgreen
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New board

Unread post by bgreen » Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:21 pm

The latest board - intended to replicate board 7. I only had one wave in a very crowded surf and it went pretty well.
MM9_bottom.jpg
MM9_foil2.jpg
MM9_foil.jpg
MM9_tail.jpg
The reason I got this one, was an airline luggage cart ran over my previous two boards.

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Re: New board

Unread post by belly rider » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:07 am

Darn airlines I hate the way they handle our luggage despite it being a surfboard or a suitcase
its all about the ride

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bgreen
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Re: New board

Unread post by bgreen » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:38 pm

Sort of fortunately I saw this happen - I was on the bus moving between terminals when I saw my boards fall off the luggage trolley and go under the wheel of the cart. If I hadn't seen it I would have got to the destination and gone - what the %$&* happened to my boards.

The airline were good about promptly refunding me for damages.

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Re: New board

Unread post by nomastomas » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:33 pm

Nice! What are the dims? What size fins do you plan to run?
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bgreen
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Re: New board

Unread post by bgreen » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:36 am

Dimensions are similar to other boards: 54 x 21 x 1 7/8".

So far it's been ridden finless, which I'll probably stick to. I'm not entirely sure that it is suited to fins. The couple of times I rode the previous version with fins, they didn't seem to interact well with the wings. I'd talked to the shaper about trialling a different location/angle for the plugs, but I think they are in the same location as the last board. I said I wanted a duplicate and that's probably what I got.

The previous board has been well tested at Jbay and at smallish Cloudbreak, amongst other places - without fins.

When it comes to fins, I typically don't use much over 3.5 "

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Re: New board

Unread post by nomastomas » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:45 am

The bottom of your board is very similar to how I shape the T-Bellys. What you refer to as "wings" are essentially the sides of what I call "exit concaves". That curved surface presents quite a challenge for mounting fins. The problem is, if the fin-box (or plug) is installed flush with the surface, it produces negative fin cant, with the fin tip leaning towards the centerline instead of away from the centerline. Negative cant reduces the effectiveness of the fin when the board is rotated on its axis to turn. (my guess is that it also produces unwanted drag) Tail V will compensate a little for this, but I've learned to compensate even further by using FCS Fusion boxes, which an be ordered in three different cants; 0*, 5* or 9*. On a twin-fin, I use the 9* boxes. On a quad, I use 5* boxes in front where the concave is more shallow, and 9* for the rear, where the concave is deeper. The other "trick" I use is to shape a little flat spot (flat, as in parallel to the stringer) where the box will be installed. This also makes it easier for my glasser to use the fin box jig when installing the boxes.

The other problem I see is that you need to use larger/deeper fins, especially in larger/steeper waves if you want the full "finned" effect. But, if your fin plugs are not parallel to the centerline, larger fins will make things worse, i.e. create more unwanted drag. Below is a tutorial on fin cant as I understand it.
Fin Cant Angle.pdf
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bgreen
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Re: New board

Unread post by bgreen » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:33 pm

I'll see what Chris says about altering fin cant. I know there isn't much thickness in the boards.

Regarding the utility off fins. I've never had any problems in steep/hollow waves. The two instances where I recall the tail noticeably losing grip, but not totally, was when doing a bottom turn and going fast and the wave suddenly became full. Yesterday there was a bit of whitewater to turn around as well. The result was momentary loss of speed. A very infrequent experience I can live with and outweighed by the fun of going finless.

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Re: New board

Unread post by nomastomas » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:45 pm

"Regarding the utility of fins..." just depends on where you want to surf on the wave. Finless boards take different lines than finned boards, but either line can be "fun".
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bgreen
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Re: New board

Unread post by bgreen » Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:00 am

Jeff Quam had something to say about following the line of the wave.


I have also ridden this board extensively, predominately finned, but it rides fine finless. It has a more traditional BB bottom.
MM4_bottom.jpg
MM4_bottom.jpg (85.46 KiB) Viewed 2453 times

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Re: New board

Unread post by krusher74 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:08 pm

nomastomas wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:45 pm
"Regarding the utility of fins..." just depends on where you want to surf on the wave. Finless boards take different lines than finned boards, but either line can be "fun".
How would you describe these different lines? and are they by choice or by design constraints?

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Re: New board

Unread post by nomastomas » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:11 pm

Been a while Keith...Probably the most obvious example is holding a high line on a steep face. A finless board can get there, but has difficulty staying there. A properly finned board can get there and stay there. Personal experience and reports from customers support this. I frequently get reports from riders of making sections that they have never been able to make on a finless board. Just as obvious is the ease with which a finless board can find and hold a line on a hollow, pitching face. The board just seems to know where the trim line is. A finned board wants to be pulled up the face and into the lip. The rider has to constantly fight this tendency. Lastly, there is "drift". Finless board will drift at the drop of a hat, while finned boards resist drifting (if properly finned). A finless rider becomes comfortable with drift and uses it to enhance the ride, e.g. 360s. The finned rider uses the hold provided by the fins to carve harder turns, and to sustain a higher line. The lines you draw depend upon the equipment you use. So, there are some performance constraints dictated by design, but there are also advantages dictated by design. The "enlightened" rider knows the constraints and advantages of his equipment, and blissfully surfs accordingly.
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bgreen
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Re: New board

Unread post by bgreen » Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:50 pm

I recall a wave, a while ago, at a long lined point on my fastest board. The problem wasn't holding a high line on a steep face, it was breaking the high line because of the speed. Putting aside the ability to do more acute turns, finless boards can have two problems. One is the momentary loss of control going from a fast/hollow section to a fuller section where there is edge loss and cutbacks where the edge is lost. I'll have a look/see if I can find a controlled slide by John Galera.

My background isn't bodyboards so have never go into 360s etc.

What's your two euros worth Keith.

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krusher74
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Re: New board

Unread post by krusher74 » Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:15 pm

bgreen wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:50 pm
I recall a wave, a while ago, at a long lined point on my fastest board. The problem wasn't holding a high line on a steep face, it was breaking the high line because of the speed. Putting aside the ability to do more acute turns, finless boards can have two problems. One is the momentary loss of control going from a fast/hollow section to a fuller section where there is edge loss and cutbacks where the edge is lost. I'll have a look/see if I can find a controlled slide by John Galera.

My background isn't bodyboards so have never go into 360s etc.

What's your two euros worth Keith.
I only see it two ways, Either I and holding my edge or I have lost it. (same as i would see find are holding of have blow out)

I will blow my edge to 360, but at all other times, I feel I am holding an edge and not "drifting" To me if I was drifting down the face I have lost my edge, as in I have failed to keep that rail engaged. I dont find a high line a problem to hold.
I would be interesting to be watched surfing for someone to point out any drifting i may be doing if they thought I was doing it. I would personally see drifting as a lack of ability to hold an edge or the board not being designed with a functional finless rail.
I do see that a fin can be turned harder on, but I never feel like I can't turn as hard as I want to for fear of the rail sliding.
My paipo has a thinner rail than a typical bodyboard so its better to knife into a bottom turn with. But I still rarely blow out a bodyboard rail either. i usually have to be hit on the feet by white water for that to happen.

Do you feel you are sliding at all?

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bgreen
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Re: New board

Unread post by bgreen » Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:30 am

Seldom, I'll see if I can get a link to John Galera's video.

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Re: New board

Unread post by krusher74 » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:18 am

bgreen wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 4:30 am
Seldom, I'll see if I can get a link to John Galera's video.
The Galera boards have a huge concave deck and this looks like it would make the rail hard to keep connected/sunk in the wave face. the design of your latest board is the opposite and looks like it would knife into the face easily and resist sliding a lot easier.

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