Technique: Riding position

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krusher74
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Re: Riding position

#11

Unread post by krusher74 »

jbw4600 wrote:I ride pretty far forward as well. However, I surf a lot of steep beach breaks and so I will I often have to take off with the board out in front of me a bit to avoid nose diving. Then I will slide back forward onto the board. I hate having to do this this. I usually gets me out of sync and slows me down. I like to drive with my elbows. Consequently I like to have the wide point of the board built further forward.
I often get way up on the front for take offs and then when going down the face will slide the board further out in front of me to bottom turn.

Do you have much nose rocker?
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Re: Riding position

#12

Unread post by rodndtube »

This is how Dr. Robert rides... at least on this wave, this day and this board. He promises to elaborate more fully. (click on the pic for a larger version to view.) Or, for a very large version: http://mypaipoboards.org/events/2012-07 ... Robert.jpg
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Re: Riding position

#13

Unread post by krusher74 »

rodndtube wrote:This is how Dr. Robert rides... at least on this wave, this day and this board. He promises to elaborate more fully. (click on the pic for a larger version to view.) Or, for a very large version: http://mypaipoboards.org/events/2012-07 ... Robert.jpg

Aharrrrrr! 8-)

He's in the same position I ride, and the handle is allowing this position on alonger board, with no handle he would either be very far forward or reaching for the nose and stretched out, which looses TQ for turning the nose. :D
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Re: Riding position

#14

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

Yeah, looks like handle increased functional body length through increased leverage. Longer board gives more glide, planning, earlier take-offs, better peak chasing, many pluses.
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Re: Riding position

#15

Unread post by rodndtube »

Okay, you itemized the "credit" side of the ledger. For balance, let's itemize the "debit" side of the ledger.
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Re: Riding position

#16

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

For sure much loss of duck diving ability! Aside from that??? I am open to hearing about it never having ridden one...
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Re: Riding position

#17

Unread post by soulglider »

wierd looking for those that care, bloody noses, broken fingers, wrists, noses, extra work to make, just another step farther away from the natural feel between body surfing and paipo (plywood) or belly (foam n glass) boarding and cost are maybe some minuses.
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Re: Riding position

#18

Unread post by dr robert »

Regarding that clip…I think the entire ride was about 20 seconds, very small wave but had some zip and a little wall.

If you look real close at the first 2 frames you will see that almost a half of the body is off the board, tail is drifting laterally,but being controlled by the pressure from the handle and the outside rail…it's a fun experience and can be more extreme depending on the situation, ends up like riding a large hand plane sometimes, and can really set you up nicely for barrels and whatnot.

After that the body pulls back levelly onto the board for the trim/glide with the board being adjusted to the wave face from the counter pressure of the handle , and arm on the outside rail.

As Rod said,it's just one wave, and just one technique to suit that particular situation.

As for the handle itself, have yet to break a finger,nose, wrist or whatever, but I suppose there is still time.

And, a respectful question for those that employ the "superman' technique…why?
I have a hard time envisioning, let alone experiencing benefit from that on paipos… obviously a standard and totally functional approach in body surfing as in your hand becomes a planing surface, but I'm stumped on how or why it's of benefit on a paipo?

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Re: Riding position

#19

Unread post by bgreen »

Hello Robert,

The experience of your legs/lower body lifting off the board is one I have commented on to Jeff Quam. I've mostly noticed this going into a hollow section before it shuts down, rather than when turning or when on a full section.

I think the superman arm was very much a finless wood paipo method to put pressure on the inside rail. It's not something that comes as a natural movement.

I look forward to hearing about your new board. I sold a board (and gave one to go with it) so have ordered a new board (I took the bonzer, Jeff's board and my favourite board to a shaper and we spent a couple of hours coming up with a refinement of my favourite board). Had some fun waves last Sunday.

Speed on.

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Re: Riding position

#20

Unread post by OG-AZN »

dr robert wrote: And, a respectful question for those that employ the "superman' technique…why?
I have a hard time envisioning, let alone experiencing benefit from that on paipos… obviously a standard and totally functional approach in body surfing as in your hand becomes a planing surface, but I'm stumped on how or why it's of benefit on a paipo?
I wish one of the real old timers from Hawai'i would provide their insight into the origins and art of "superman" style paipo riding. My take is that superman style usually isn't the easiest or most efficient way to ride, but it's hella fun and comes naturally to people who do a lot of bodysurfing. The perception of speed & the entire sensation of riding are much different, especially when you take both hands off the rails. When you're flying across a smooth wave like that, you can forget there's a board under you. It's easy to imagine this style evolved as a natural progression from bodysurfing. Riding superman style is essentially bodysurfing with the advantage of a big planing surface under you. Also,the traditional style of paipo riding with the rider always far forward on the board & head way out over the nose seems more conducive to having the inside arm thrust forward or swept back since you diminish the leverage (from the inside arm) and ability to control the board "bodyboard style" in that position.

I started off riding paipos as a kid using the inside arm forward and back styles because that's how I saw the older guys at Makapu'u & Town doing it, and the arm forward style felt very natural since I did a lot of bodysurfing too. I never got to see the guys riding solid Country waves on paipos using the both hands on the rails - bodyboard style. Picking up paipos again later in life and riding them "bodyboard' style opened up a lot more performance options. Made me wonder why the bodyboard style didn't become the standard way to ride in Hawai'i. You still see a lot of superman style used by paipo riders on O'ahu today. Bodyboard style allows you to really bury the rail, put more power into (and do more kinds of) maneuvers, and easily maintain control on all types of waves. Superman style requires more finesse and attention to balance and body positioning. It also allows you to drive through and make big sections while still keeping the board flat against the wave surface and planing. There's also the greater perception of speed and the fun of being in a controlled slide. Sort of like the explanation car drifters give when asked why they like driving that way. I think superman style isn't the most functional, but I feel it's definitely the more stylish way of riding. Now I use both styles regularly, sometimes switching up on the same wave. Makes riding paipos even more fun.

Superman style is alive and well on O'ahu.
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Re: Riding position

#21

Unread post by bgreen »

Trevor,

The DVD Bombora, contains an extra section and there is a single wave of a paipo rider, which I've been told was Mailie Point. The guy rides superman style while planning across a fast section, then grabs the rails when he does a big turn off the white-water. It's interesting footage because the guy tries to use the superman style several times but pulls his arm back in, either because he needs to stabilise himself, has to turn or he has to weight forward as the wave fills out.

The arm must alter the riders centre of gravity a bit, as well as the pressure on the inside rail. Sean Ross never used it at Pipeline. I'm making some enquiries about whether the guys who ride Cunhas use it much. It could be one of those things some people like to do. The link to shorter boards and bodysurfing is right. The interviews I did with guys who were very good bodysurfers, often talked about how they changed arms (much more than grabbing a rail) to manoeuvre. I can see there may be something to the aspect of it being fun while going fast. I suspect it is a very different experience on a thin wood board as opposed to a foam board.

Some ply surfing. Sean Ross at Pipe and an unknown at Kirra.
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Re: Riding position

#22

Unread post by OG-AZN »

Bob,
Riding superman style on solid waves is definitely challenging. Doing the arm back style on steep pitching waves is even harder. Even the old masters have to put 2 hands on the rail sometimes. You can watch guys like Harry at big Makapu'u and be surprised how little they have to grab both rails even in the often bouncy conditions. They will 2 hand it for big cutbacks. Like I said, I think the superman style isn't the most purely functional, it's more of a stylish art like noseriding a longboard.

I'll try to look up the old footage you're talking about. Ma'ili Point, the spot that breaks just west of it when it's big, and Green Lanterns a little ways down the road can be good paipo waves. I can assure you that superman style is alive and well at Cunhas & Wall. Those are spots I learned at, along with Publics. The pic from my last post is from Walls this summer. The guy could very well have caught the wave outside at Cunhas and rode through Walls if the swell was big enough. The last time I saw waves there, I watched a guy superman it from Graveyards well past the Wall. Might have been the same guy in the pic.
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Re: Riding position

#23

Unread post by Ted »

Paul Lindbergh told me that paipo riders originated the superman style and that bodysurfers copied it.

The superman style is useful on the HPD to get weight far enough forward to prevent the board from bucking; Paul says to trim forward until the board accelerates, then trim back a tiny bit onto the balance point. The only other way to get the same trim on the HPD is to scoot forward with both hands back and your face over the nose - a sketchy position that seems like a invitation for busted teeth. The superman position on the standard HPD allows the back hand to lever the board up to set the rail. Interestingly, the new HPD (I forgot the name) with more parallel rails rides very well with bodyboard (inside elbow bent 90 degrees) style.

Superman style on a floaty, skegged board like the Austin is just style.

Superman style on a narrow, domed board like the Malama Kai is a recipe for falling off.
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Re: Riding position

#24

Unread post by rodndtube »

This little guy rides "pig style." Must be riding a pig plan shape, too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Little-Guys-Bel ... 1012185246
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Re: Riding position

#25

Unread post by Papa Paepo o »

Aloha gang,
you know what, they all are good posture in body placement. As i see in photo's, everyone has that one-hand up front and the other on the side like a bodyboarder positions. And it's still good to use, some other paipo-riders has their inner (arm against face of wave) reaching out as a "counter-weight". With that style is some time good and not good. Some riders seem to just lay both hands on the deck to keep the board from getting into a "turbulence glide" chops making their rides successful.
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Re: Riding position

#26

Unread post by Papa Paepo o »

Fun surf during dawn-patrol
Fun surf during dawn-patrol
Sandy Beach shore-breaks Dawn-patrol
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Re: Riding position

#27

Unread post by zensuni »

dr robert wrote: And, a respectful question for those that employ the "superman' technique…why?
I have a hard time envisioning, let alone experiencing benefit from that on paipos… obviously a standard and totally functional approach in body surfing as in your hand becomes a planing surface, but I'm stumped on how or why it's of benefit on a paipo?
I know this topic is 5 years old, but I find this question interresting.
I would compare this stance to longboard nose riding, all things being equal.
It may not be the most performant way of riding, but it is stylish, and it gives a great feeling of trimming.

But most important, it requires commitment, as you need to position far forward, it gives this little extra rush of riding "head first" without the (relative) protection of the board.
This is also why I carefully choose on which wave I do it or not. If in my confort zone, I go for it, if not, I stick to the standard bodyboard stance, or I grab the nose with 2 hands.
I find the superman style works best on guitar pick shape boards, if well done, on the right wave, it's a blast, one really feels the tail behaving like a fin.
On my current ply board, flat, long and narrow, the superman style is not as efficient, I tend to use its variant, the "canon ball" style, it provides quite the same feeling, plus you really feel like you and the board are one.
The downside of the "canon ball" stance is that it is not very stylish, makes you look like a seal bodysurfing :D
Another fun alternative is the superman style with both arms. I use it on crowded small waves, it allows to perform quick turns (to avoid a collision for instance), using the hands like front fins.
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Re: Technique: Riding position

#28

Unread post by Papa Paepo o »

Aloha, I am the originator or creator of this "Malolo-style" of Papa Paepo'o board surfing. When you becomes "Ma'a" as one with your board, the board will work with you in any size surf. Riding up on the nose, well risking the board to purl-dive. Not to be rude but up front, ride the surf the way you ride. My style is called "malolo-style" in Hawai'i and well stated on every Papa Paepo'o boards I produced and my riders does it in style. Have a safe surf session.
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Re: Technique: Riding position

#29

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

Hunting youtube for "action" of your Papa Paepo'o style I found the below video. Doesn't show you riding but the smile on that little face made my day. My childhood intros to water fun were a bit traumatic so I always love seeing someone that young having so much fun with great support and guidance from elders. Aloha big time!
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Re: Technique: Riding position

#30

Unread post by zensuni »

A great video of Jarrett riding "Malolo-style":
https://youtu.be/uNcqjd-RF_4?t=735
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