Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

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Ted
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Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#1

Unread post by Ted »

Austin is making me a new paipo (44" by 20.5 by 2"). If anyone in Hawaii is thinking about ordering an Austin Paipo, we could both save money by sharing shipping costs.
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#2

Unread post by SJB »

Hey Ted.....wish I could personally deliver it. I believe my off the rack Austin is 50" by 21" by 2.5".

1. What is your thinking in knocking 6" off the length and going thinner?

2. Can you share what Austin charges for a custom job?

3. I will be especially interested in hearing how it performs.

Have fun out there.

Thanks.
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#3

Unread post by rodndtube »

The standard off the rack baseline design is about 50 x 20.5 x 2.5. That can shape an 1/8 to 1/4 in. more narrower and/or thinner, depending upon someone's desire or more or less float, experience and the type of waves ridden. My Checkered RPM is 50 x 20 x 2.25, maybe a hair less than 20" wide and thinner than 2.25 in places and not thicker than 2.375 in one small spot. Despite those seemingly minor changes in width and thickness, I now call Orange Matter my "Big Boy" and my Checkered RPM is my "Little Lady." It is amazing how easy it is to get my arms around RPM compared to Orange Matter.

I am going to place another order soon for another RPM, slightly modified. It will also run closer to 2 inches thick except for some doming towards the tail to be thick enough for the fin boxes. Also a good place to support the gut of the body for paddling float. The board will also stay at 20 or 20-1/8 in wide. I have been toying around with going to 48 inches long.

Over the years the board length has been partly a function of a few factors -- paddling ease (height of board should be about to the bottom of the sternum so the knees are not on the tail of the board during paddling) and ease of travel (car trunks, board bags and airlines). Although cutting down to 48 inches might be attractive for various reason I don't think it will be a factor in today's airline travel world. (Rant moved to new thread http://mypaipoboards.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58.)

Back to your main questions... Austin's stock paipos have been running around $425. Additional custom resin coloring, woodwork, pin striping, etc. will increase costs.

I have no doubt that Ted's board will work nicely in Hawaii's waves. My Orange Matter, the baseline Austin design, has worked well in and been ridden in waves ranging from East Coast to PR, CR and Hawaii and elsewhere. The RPM is a real treat in tropical reef surf, or waves with a good punch -- it doesn't handle mushy waves or flat spots as well as Orange Matter, but RPM is really fun on the really good ones. RPM now goes to destinations such as CR, PR and HI; Orange Matter is my Maryland - Florida board (but both are in the SurfMoMiniVan on trips to the NJ/Delaware/MD/VA/NC coast).
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#4

Unread post by Ted »

SJB,

My current Austin is 50 by 20 by 2.25 and rides great as a thruster with 2 inch side bites. The 44 inch length will allow me to stick the new Austin in my bodyboard bag for travel. The reduced thickness should help duck diving without compromising paddling too much. I am hoping for a board that duck dives like an HPD, allows late takeoffs like a bodyboard, and bottom turns like the Austin.

The new board will also have an FCS plug up front for Hero camera mount and leash plugs fore and aft for flexibility.

Austin is charging $440 for clear board, 6+8 oz cloth top and bottom, thruster box/FCS setup, double leash plugs and camera mount.

Come on over and try it!

Ted
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#5

Unread post by SJB »

Hey Ted.....tried the new board out yet?
I am revisiting this post because of the recent "Blue Plate Special" post by Skiff that sings the praises of bigger being better.
I also took Rod's observation to heart about sternum length keeping the knees off the board. For me that would be about the 44" length of your new board. I do find on my 50" Austin when I am paddling with the arms that my coinciding kick is half in and half out of the water......so a shorter board would probably help that.
At the same time I like buoyancy.....so maybe I should order up a 44" board but with a 23" width and a 3" thickness. Thus achieving a more proper length for my height and weight (5'9" and 160 pounds) while still attaining the desired buoyancy coupled with the speed Skiff and the other big board riders like?
The idea of trying to muscle maneuvers out of anything over 6' just seems flat out wrong. Sorry Skiff.
Any thoughts on my new suggested dimensions.....44".....23" wide.....3" thick?
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#6

Unread post by rodndtube »

SJB, your dimensions are approaching the ideal planning board ratio specified by the design genius, Lindsay Lord:
http://mypaipoboards.org/pubs/BookSumma ... rd_Lindsay
Also see the interview with John Elwell:
http://mypaipoboards.org/interviews/Pai ... ohn_Elwell

Having said that 23 inches is a bit wide for me and with a 3 inch thick board and your body weight it might prove to be a lot to duck dive (if duck diving is an issue where you surf). Just remember, for every 1/4 inch of thickness and every half inch of width you add a ton of volume to a board. A 44 x 21 x 2.5 in board provides a fair amount of volume. Go to 46 x 21.5 x 2.5 if you want to stretch the envelope. If you ride point breaks then you can go a little wider but I wouldn't want to go any thicker.
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#7

Unread post by SJB »

Thanks Rod....very interesting. I am seriously considering "stretching the envelope". I found following from John Elwell interview of particular interest. Sage advice.....especially the last sentence. 8-)

14. In an e-mail you mentioned that Simmons did not make bellyboards himself. So, the question that begs asking is: What would a "Simmons-design paipo board" look like? For purposes of discussion let’s assume the paipo board would be 46 to 50 inches long. How wide would the board be (i.e., what aspect ratio would be used)? How thick would the board be? What would the board template look like? How much belly would there be in the nose section and where would the concave begin? What would the rail template look like from the nose through the tail (sample rail drawings for the forward, middle, aft and tail sections)? How much thinness would there be in the rails? And for the benefit of the novice paipo designer, what is meant by the "turn-up in the nose with camber?"


One of Simmons friends told me that took some broken Simmons boards and used the forward several feet of the nose and they turned out to be excellent body boards. To my knowledge Simmons did not make any body boards, but he could have.

Keep in mind the maximum width allowable is what fits between your shoulder pits. That would mean it would be different for every individual, especially for women and kids.

Remember also that displacement is calculated with Archimedes equation for the exact load.... so dimensions would vary on
thickness and actual size of the plate. Rule of thumb "generalization" and  "guestimates" would not be what engineers and naval architects would be doing. Having said that, aspect ratio can be calculated by dividing the length into the width. It should be close to .5 for the ideal. Width and length will vary to load (weight of the rider) combined with buoyancy or displacement (Archimedes calculation).

It is the roundness of the rail which is not identified clearly. Old stuff written says it has to do with "roundness."  Simmons use what is called soft rails for stock boards, but not for his personal boards! His personal board had harder and more down rails, to thinner, and some 60/40 percent. This is an open area for more exact research and experimentation. It is very tough to measure the results. Maybe the new strain gauges can do it with engineers in a test tank.

So what you are asking is impossible to do unless you know the load (which is what the board will carry in weight). One also needs to consider the flotation characteristics of the board.  I understand that foam can calculated by the number of bubbles and density for displacement. (My son is a chemical engineer at Dow, a pioneer, and still leader in many different types of foams that surfers don't ever know about!)

How would I make a paipo/belly board? I would copy key characteristics of a planing hull which would include a
high aspect ratio (wide and parallel: divide the length into the width -- it should be close to .5 for the ideal),
smooth uplift in the nose with "camber" (some roundness to try and capture how the water spreads it to the rail for quicker and faster lift for take offs),
shallow concave to break suction, and
foiled and rounded rail (and with more down rail).
Length is open to what you want and where you surf.  Keep in mind "resurgence," an important part for speed in different situations. And also what Lord said, "A good planing hull will adjust to speed." For example, a rider will automatically adjust the attack angle (tail squat) -- more that 20 degrees is stall and as the plate moves it comes up and the rider gets his weight forward to get over the "hump."

My personal feeling is the paipo creation is like the surfboard... an accident and came about from rule of thumb. The people of Oceania had no mathematics or written language or milled flat pieces of wood until the early western explorers arrived. When plywood veneers came out, especially marine type, things changed. It was once guessed by Ben Finney that the first things used by children were coconuts for buoyancy in the shore break. I would imagine ship wreck wreckage was used. Cutting out flat pieces with a stone adz seems awfully difficult but apparently done. No one knows for sure because historians guess. Wood does not last long in the elements.

One more thing that Pat Curren said and Simmons referred to, “You will know when you have a perfect board.... then you should keep it!”
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#8

Unread post by Uncle Grumpy »

To my knowledge Simmons did not make any body boards, but he could have.
A couple years ago we had a Simmons exhibit at the Surfing Heritage Foundation.

This board, owned by a very prominant board collector, was in the show and and was possibly shaped by Bob Simmons, altho' there is some debate to the truth of this claim.

I examined it very closely with the thought of replicating the shape at some point.

The most obvious feature is the slot nose.
IMGP3484.JPG
Hullish from the nose to rear of the the slot, fading into dead flat in the back.
IMGP3489.JPG
IMGP3486.JPG
Most certainly one of a kind.
Paipo surfer in repose,
Nose on the nose,
No grunting he-man pose.
See how fast he goes!
What is it he knows?
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#9

Unread post by Uncle Grumpy »

Very thin foiled rails, (like most real Simmons boards).
Attachments
IMGP3474.JPG
Paipo surfer in repose,
Nose on the nose,
No grunting he-man pose.
See how fast he goes!
What is it he knows?
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#10

Unread post by spudnut »

The way that I came up with the dimensions of my current board was interesting:

1) I ride superman style and like to pull my fins out of the water bending my knees to keep my body out of the water while riding to reduce drag and increase speed. So, I got down on my knees and measured to the top of my head. For me that was 50".

2) I thought that the overall ideal for width was .4, so I made the width of the board 20" wide.

3) Parallel rails was the choice taking the zen approach to balance between turning ability and speed / wave catching ability.

4) Marine ply for stiffness but still absorbs bump. It duckdives super easily and still does have enough float that I could arm paddle some if I want to.
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#11

Unread post by bgreen »

Ted,

Apologies my post has nothng to do with your original thread.


Spudnut. Larry Goodard once e-mailed me that he believed a board should be 0.75 your height. I'm less sure sure about a width 30% of your height. I'd need to check this a bit more (I think there were caveats on this one in terms of wave size to be ridden).

Bob
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#12

Unread post by spudnut »

Bob,

The .4 ratio was width/length. My board works out to 73.5% of my height.

Ted,

I too apologize for the thread hi-jack!
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#13

Unread post by bgreen »

SJB,

Regarding your proposed length : width of 44" x 23". When it is considered in terms of ratios a 44" x 23 board has an L/W ratio of 0.525

Teds 44 x 20.25 has a L x W ratio of 0.465

Rod's Austin 50 x 20.25 has a L/W ratio of 0.405

Spudnuts 50 x 20 has a L/W ratio of 0.4

My board of 53.75 x 21.38 has a L/W ratio of 0.397

I think (based on memory) a nofin I have has a L/w ratio of 0.35

So based on all this 44" x 23 looks a bit wide, but a HPD is 40 x 30" = L/W ratio of 0.75

Time to go surifng.

Bob
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#14

Unread post by rodndtube »

Larry's boards range from 18" to 23" wide and are all around 51 to 54" long. The range in width is considerably more significant than the variation in length. The longest of the three boards is the Makaha Missile which also features a rather narrow, highly scooped nose.
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#15

Unread post by bgreen »

Rod,

My understanding is that the wider boards are for smaller waves (up to 10'). Length would be .75 of height, or so. Age may have produced a wider board as well.

They are not built for duck-diving.


Bob
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Re: Austin paipo shared shipping to HI?

#16

Unread post by rodndtube »

That is correct -- Larry's Yellow board is a real beast -- for waves under 8 foot!
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