Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
soulglider
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Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by soulglider » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:54 am

Paipo 0280.jpg
Paipo 0278.jpg
Paipo 0279.jpg
What you are gazing at is a 2014 paiphull board. 48x201/2x1to2-21/4 thick. the rails are my typical bladed out and sharp versions of the original Liddle displacement hulls but, with a twist. They arent 50/50 like my past boards but are more like 30/70's taken from and old boogie mach7. glassed with one 6 on top and one 4 on the bottom for flex. (i've never had one snap) it will be fitted with random single fins of the flexible variety. These boards are, like Ive said somewhere before, in the line of greenough spoons as they were taken into the standup realm of the Liddle creations and now into the realm of paipo. Why not just a spoon you say? Ive been there and done that. Ive ridden Greenough, Terry Hendricks and two spoons I made but alas, as Romo of kneeboard fame once told me when I was inquiring about one of his spoons made for prone surfing, THEY DONT WORK! And I know why, the flex points are all wrong for face first sliding. i will post more photos when it gets back from the glasser. GO GIANTS!
deathbedpaipo.blogspot.com

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by bgreen » Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:31 pm

Tim,

I wasn't sure if it was the angle of the photos or not, but is the wide point really forward and is there a slight S in the deck? I like the idea of harder rails. Airlines would kill a glass job like that but I'm interested in the flex idea. Flex is noticeable in a wooden alaia and a HPD but I've never really experienced it in a more conventional fibreglass board.

Bob

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by flojo » Fri Oct 17, 2014 7:30 pm

cool shape--have always liked thin rails. Would like to see where the single fin placement is and how big it needs to be to be effective.

vamos gigantes

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by soulglider » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:34 pm

Bobby, the wide point is actually almost dead center. All my boards have flex, not as much as an a alaia but mor than an hpd.

Flojo. It will have a 10" box. Up 6" off the tail. As for the fin, I use anything from 6-10" flex fins. Usually greenoughs sanded a little for a little more flex.
deathbedpaipo.blogspot.com

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by Canyon » Sun Oct 19, 2014 3:14 pm

That board looks insanely fun. Keep us updated once in the water.

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by krusher74 » Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:47 am

I love the shape, any chance of a better pic of the profile of the rail you speak of.

i have double 4oz on the deck of my fav board and have pressure dented the crap out of it, hope yours holds up.

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by soulglider » Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:58 am

kush, thanks for the concerns.

i care more about the flex than i do about the longevity of my boards (all my boards are glassed like this). i've done heavier for customers, but i'm also not doing any tricks, they aint my thang.

for only $425 i will show you the rails. and for that amount you'll be able to not only see them but also be able to touch them, feel them and actually physically check out how they perform! for as long as you want! i will post when i get it back from the glasser.

you can see the type of rails that are on this board at deathbedpaipo.blogspot.com
deathbedpaipo.blogspot.com

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by matt23 » Thu Oct 30, 2014 8:21 am

OOh bladey, I do like that!

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krusher74
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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by krusher74 » Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:46 am

soulglider wrote:kush, thanks for the concerns.

i care more about the flex than i do about the longevity of my boards (all my boards are glassed like this). i've done heavier for customers, but i'm also not doing any tricks, they aint my thang.

for only $425 i will show you the rails. and for that amount you'll be able to not only see them but also be able to touch them, feel them and actually physically check out how they perform! for as long as you want! i will post when i get it back from the glasser.

you can see the type of rails that are on this board at deathbedpaipo.blogspot.com
It wasn't from trick that I make dents, huge ones on the tail from my knee from duck diving and elbow dents from driving through turns, but it could also be that be cut deep into the soft foam of a 7'2 blank to make my board. I also like the flex, maybe more carbon on my next board in the dent areas

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by soulglider » Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:24 am

i like my boards like my girls...flexible and a little dense.
deathbedpaipo.blogspot.com

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by nomastomas » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:11 am

I'm wondering how you guys are measuring flex? My typical belly boards are 43" x 22" by 2.25"", with no stringer, 1.9lb EPS core, and double 4oz E-Cloth deck and single 4oz E-Cloth bottom. There is a little flex in the first 3"-4" of the nose where thickness drops to about 1/2" ( I can feel it when I grip the nose), but no noticeable flex anywhere else. Initially, I was concerned about having too much flex, especially when I eliminated the stringer. But I soon learned that flex on my boards is non-existent or at least undetectable to me. (I have even tried to test flex by placing the board upside down on a single rack stand, and applying downward pressure at both ends. No noticeable flex...) I'm also wondering, where on the board do you design the "flex" to occur?, how much flex are you trying to achieve at that point? and how does flex benefit performance?
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krusher74
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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by krusher74 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:26 am

More than being able to notice flex i can notice a board that feels to me to stiff.

A stiff board ill feel more like its jumping/chattering in choppy conditions, and then going into a turn will feel very sudden in engagement. So the surfing feel will be very on/off.

With a board that's thinner and has less glass on it (must have more flex) the ride feel smoother and changes in direction seem less dramatic.

Kinda like the difference in car tyres between a high profile soft tyre that has a easily recognizable end of grip, and a lo profile tyre that suddenly spins out on you.

My "flexy" board has no noticeable flex from me pushing on it on dry land. (pu, double 4oz top) :?

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by jbw4600 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:12 pm

Tomas, That is interesting you only have 2 layers of 4 oz and 1 4oz on the bottom of your stringerless eps board. It is great that it holds together with only that much glass. I am building a new board right now and I put 3 layers of 4oz on the top and bottom on it. I was worried about strength, because my new board is only 1 3/4" thick. It looks like I am over-killing. On my next board I was thinking about doing 3 on top and 2 on the bottom. Maybe now I will go 2 on and 2 on bottom.

However, my current stringerless eps board with 3 on top and 3 on the bottom is still very light and after a year of use has no cracks or dents.

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by nomastomas » Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:18 pm

The double deck/single bottom 4oz is the standard shortboard lamination. However, most SB are made of the light/but soft "Red" density PU foam, which is why they dent so badly. I believe that 1.9PCF-2.0PCF eps has about the same density as "Blue" density PU foam. I use Blue desnity PU for my longboards. I beleive that the White Cap eps foam you have used is 2.0PCF, which along with the heavy glass job, would explain its durability. But, tell us about the degree of flex in your first eps board. I think its similar in size to the Soulglider's "death bed" and krusher's foam&glass paipos.
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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by soulglider » Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:57 am

what kush says is true. before i started making these boards i was riding "more traditional" versions of early 60's bellyboards. they were always right around 2.5-3" thick with 2 layers top and 1 and sometimes 2 on the bottom. then i bought a board from mr. mike. it was weird, huge concave bottom, 4' long (i'm 6'5" and 250)and 1" thick from foam and "glass." actually one side had 1 layer of kevlar and the other side had one layer of aloha shirt cloth. no glass on the rails, just resin. i was afraid to ride it on my maiden voyage, 3-5', i had never ridden anything like it and nothing that thin before. it turned out to be my favorite board ever and it lasted almost 2 years before i snapped it in huge beach break. it was that little piece of crap that lead me to flex. it was a 1/2" thin in the first 3rd of the board and used a wood stringer. he said he shaped it out of a broken windsurfer board. i always shape a "s-deck" in all of my boards now and rarely go over 1" down the center of the board. my rails are thicker sometimes which creates a dished out center running length wise. i prefer using stringerless blanks (always blue), first because i'm lazy and then secondly the flex man, the flex. using foam and glass i would be a liar if i got all technical explaining how to shape this into a perfect longitudinal flex machine like "and the hypotenuse divided by the hydrodinamica errrrrrr uhhhhh errr techno babble blah blah blah." to be honest, the flex is random, just like waves themselves and everything about them. but i can say, i have never been let down by the flex i can feel in these lil machines. i love the randomness i aint gunna lie. they flex, they break but i've never made a board that the customer or more importantly myself, has ever complained that the flexible feeling is a bummer. does it help be fling out of bottom turns, i dont know, but it sure feels like it (probably the flex fins i use in them. is it slower? i dont know, never compared it to a shape exactly like it only thicker. i know it seems faster than the "more traditional" boards i had made by real shapers. also, i have tried eps boards and i wasnt enamored with the corkiness and the hollow sound of it. i will use epoxy glass on my poly blanks and it does add strength to the boards without compromising the flex. also, my boards have been between 48-62" long. the longer ones flex more and you can really feel it, the 4 footers though, not as much. oh and and on another note, the space quad fins i made was one of the thinnest boards i made, is 4'3 long x 20 x 1.25 dished out deck and it doesnt feel like it flexes as much. because of the fins? performance wise, i love the feeling....
deathbedpaipo.blogspot.com

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by jbw4600 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 7:36 pm

Thomas, My first eps board is 51 1/2 x 21 1/2 x 2 2/8. It has very little flex. I can feel it flex or vibrate a little when punch thru waves. But it is pretty stiff, like a torpedo. I tried to bend the poly stringered board you made me and it doesn't flex at all compared to my current board.

The foam I use is pretty hard. You have push pretty hard with your finger to make a dent. I like having a tough board. My poly board cracks and dents all the time and I have to repair it. My son and his friends have had multiple boards with the standard 2 layers of 4oz on top and 1 of 4oz on the bottom and they all dented and cracked easily. I have seen brand new boards at the surfshop with crazing in them all ready. I think it is worth a little extra glass and weight to have a board that will last.

Never the less I think I might experiment with a little less glass... maybe 3 top 2 bottom or 2 top and 2 bottom.

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krusher74
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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by krusher74 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:45 pm

jbw4600 wrote:Thomas, My first eps board is 51 1/2 x 21 1/2 x 2 2/8. It has very little flex. I can feel it flex or vibrate a little when punch thru waves. But it is pretty stiff, like a torpedo. I tried to bend the poly stringered board you made me and it doesn't flex at all compared to my current board.

The foam I use is pretty hard. You have push pretty hard with your finger to make a dent. I like having a tough board. My poly board cracks and dents all the time and I have to repair it. My son and his friends have had multiple boards with the standard 2 layers of 4oz on top and 1 of 4oz on the bottom and they all dented and cracked easily. I have seen brand new boards at the surfshop with crazing in them all ready. I think it is worth a little extra glass and weight to have a board that will last.

Never the less I think I might experiment with a little less glass... maybe 3 top 2 bottom or 2 top and 2 bottom.
On my first try Into EPS boards we used some very low density EPS and double top + cloth inlay, and a double bottom, this have the feelof a board with a very hard shell and a almost air like center, felt a bit like one of those plastic molded boards. The board performed very well, be has very little "feel" if i ever do a EPS again it will be dence core and like epoxy.

You could also make a PU board stronger with epoxy glass.

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by Papa Paepo o » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:39 pm

Like the shape and design. Flex is good, if your the type of rider that love the "take-off" and taking a narly-drop with positive bottom-turns and off the lip cut-backs. I had a PC 1/2" sheet that is similar to your board shape that perform perfect on drops and cut-backs. I had snapped two flexible boards, one board snap on me at "Sandy Beach" shore breaks and another at Point Panics, O`ahu. I'm using 1/2" ply and they have little flex even with a 12oz. S-glass,6oz on top and 6oz. on bottom deck. Keep it up......

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Re: Deathbed Displacement Paiphull

Unread post by soulglider » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:43 pm

thanks Papa, san diego reef breaks no compare to da kine shore pound in hawaii brah! need da kine beef boards over there!
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