My lates Wing board

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
Wooddave
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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by Wooddave » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:09 am

Awesome,
hope you get on some of that long period swell you were talking about.
I was wondering if you would share the technique and materials you used for attaching the foam to your board.
I used some scrap sea deck from a local paddleboard shop for mine but I would like to do something closer to what you did..

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by CHRISPI » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:45 pm

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Here is a pick of the port afterburner been lit, no seriously am trying to show how much leverage is going to be exerted on the torsion box, it might pop on the first drop, also trying to show the angle of attack of the foil, check out the amateur Go Pro slid show. I mised the swell on sunday.it came in on monday I think it was storm 6 on magic sea weed one of the you sould have been hear stories

CHRISPI
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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by CHRISPI » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:40 pm

Hi wooddave,
I use Polyvinylacetate foam but over here the coloure range is small, you can get Polyethylene in most solid colours from body board supply companies. There is a large stiffness range in PVA foams. Use contact adhesive high temp water resistant general purpose .mask in the edge of the area you want to cover with two layers of tape, this allows the glue to be worked into deck cross hatching at the foams edge, you can glue in grip dimples, grip bulbs and elbow pads, its best to shape them after they are glued on use 80 grit for the deck and foam shaping. Cut the top layer oversize follow the instruction on the glue can, lay the glue onto the masking tape so you get into the edge, scour the foam on the inside ,gluing a large area of foam is daunting ,put reference marks on the board and foam, plan your job carfuly roll out from the center line I use a resin roller take care to get the edges by the masking tape, trim the foam close to the masked edge I finish the foam edge with 220 and a small block sand up to the mask edge finish with a bevel .

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by Uncle Grumpy » Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:39 pm

So Chrispi,
Do you have any pictures of these boards riding waves?
Paipo surfer in repose,
Nose on the nose,
No grunting he-man pose.
See how fast he goes!
What is it he knows?

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by OG-AZN » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:31 pm

Yeah, I really wish there was more visual documentation on prone foil boards so I could wrap my head around the concept. Not just of people riding decent waves, but how they handle the paddle outs and take offs too. I've seen Wooddaves? videos. Looks like he's getting some speed/momentum advantage in the mushy surf, and he was able to retain decent maneuverability in his board. The older stuff of the guy in SoCal was cool, but it seemed his board lifted him too high off the face, which looked awkward, and his board wasn't as nimble. I'd love to see someone getting a good barrel on a foil board.

To the guys that ride these boards:
How noticeable is the weight and extra drag of the foil set up when paddling out and taking off with these boards? How often have you hit reef or the bottom when paddling out/in or during a ride?

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by Wooddave » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:31 am

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the info in applying the foam, it will come in handy on my next board.

OG-AZN,
This is my latest video,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R-axvhXsxg

The surf sucked and there's definitely no barrel footage on this day, but it does show a few takeoffs.
As far as paddle outs go, obviously there is more drag than there would be with no foil underneath, but it really isn't too noticeable.
I believe that the extra surface area of the more hydrodynamic foil counters the drag by lifting the less hydrodynamic board out of the water a little thereby reducing the overall drag.
I do feel the weight of the foil,from an inertia standpoint, and while that does affect paddling out adversely some, it also helps with the takeoffs,
The new board was designed with enhancing paddleability and wave catching ability, with lots of bouyancy and planing surface, and I'm happy to report that it does a good job of it.
I've adopted the technique on most (smaller days) of getting outside by swimming on my back and pulling the board beside me by the leash.
the drag is minimal and the board pretty much stays beside me. when a wave comes I just dive deep.
Though It paddles out normally just fine, that technique uses a different muscle group than when surfing it which helps because I'm in terrible shape lol.

To answer your other question I've never hit bottom with the foil but that's probably because I don't have any reefs to hit nor do I surf too close to shorepound.

My main goal with my foil is to develop a responsive ride that is intuitive to operate, there is a balance between stability and manuverability ,
I think much like regular surf and paipo boards the optimal shape will vary based on wave type.

I do have a strut that is 12 inches tall but as you mentioned being up that high feels awkward and gives the foil (and wave) too much leverage on the rider.
The strut I use now is only 8 inches which is plenty height to give a feeling of separation from the surface of the wave..

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by krusher74 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:17 am

It looks to me like riding one of these could be at the furthest end of the spectrum of "surfing" as it goes, Its the only surfing I can think of when your not really planning at all.

Anyone who has had a go , how does it feel not to be planning a rail

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by CHRISPI » Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:20 am

Well I had my first test ride in 1m, 7 sec, off shore wind; it was a weak wave the sets waves had a small slot to fit in. Buoyancy was a concern it has about half the foam I normally use, but it paddled and took off ok, I use kick board method for paddling and take off. This is the first board that I can fell the foil lifting when paddling, On steep faces it was hard to find the sweet spot it s not as Woodave says intuitive it has to be held onto and told wear to go, it suffers from so called aileron lock at speed it won’t roll but it yaw turns on the fin .I haven’t tried it fin less .The one thing it dose do amazingly well is rids impossibly small waves with speed and length. I think I will find the balance after more hours on the water. All my boards felt odd when they were new. Is it a step forward I am not shore, it’s a bit like a test pilot in a new plane you have pragmatically find out what it can do

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by krusher74 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:14 am

CHRISPI wrote:Well I had my first test ride in 1m, 7 sec, off shore wind; it was a weak wave the sets waves had a small slot to fit in. Buoyancy was a concern it has about half the foam I normally use, but it paddled and took off ok, I use kick board method for paddling and take off. This is the first board that I can fell the foil lifting when paddling, On steep faces it was hard to find the sweet spot it s not as Woodave says intuitive it has to be held onto and told wear to go, it suffers from so called aileron lock at speed it won’t roll but it yaw turns on the fin .I haven’t tried it fin less .The one thing it dose do amazingly well is rids impossibly small waves with speed and length. I think I will find the balance after more hours on the water. All my boards felt odd when they were new. Is it a step forward I am not shore, it’s a bit like a test pilot in a new plane you have pragmatically find out what it can do
Sounds exciting, I enjoy the feeling of working out how a new board wants to work, congratulations.

How would you expect it works on a steep wave when you usually only have the back inner corner touching the wave?

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by CHRISPI » Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:53 pm

I find it hard to explain what I want from this boards , I tried to move the centre of pitch forward on this board, the other boards had the pitch centre almost on the tail ,witch made them pitch naturally downwards in a barrel or from a high line witch is good , but hard to pull up the face, I am trying to live in the vertical top part of the wave, I use the word leverage a lot when trying to explain what I am trying to achieve .The wing tip lifting with some rail guiding directionally on the vertical face, most boards drop through this zone and get directional drive in the bottom turn, my boards don’t need to bottom turn on steep take offs , enhancesing make ability in imposible barrels.I have to relearn that instinctive balance you need to survive in this zone

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by krusher74 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:13 pm

CHRISPI wrote:I find it hard to explain what I want from this boards , I tried to move the centre of pitch forward on this board, the other boards had the pitch centre almost on the tail ,witch made them pitch naturally downwards in a barrel or from a high line witch is good , but hard to pull up the face, I am trying to live in the vertical top part of the wave, I use the word leverage a lot when trying to explain what I am trying to achieve .The wing tip lifting with some rail guiding directionally on the vertical face, most boards drop through this zone and get directional drive in the bottom turn, my boards don’t need to bottom turn on steep take offs , enhancesing make ability in imposible barrels.I have to relearn that instinctive balance you need to survive in this zone

You had better jump on the plane with me to namibia then, i think we can test out your top part of the wave! :D

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by CHRISPI » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:05 pm

Sick barrels out there but to Sharky for me !
When you ride in the vertical zone or under the lip a lot the old body takes a good beating, I must admit I am starting to feel it more, but I am good for a few years more I hope

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by CHRISPI » Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:00 am

Second test without the fin this time, in very small waves, fin less seems to be the way to go, simply put this board is astonishing in small conditions. Now I need to find some size to test its legs

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by SURFFOILS » Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:09 am

Hi guys, what sort of sq in area are you riding ?
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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by CHRISPI » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:23 am

Hi Brett, It is good to see your call sign again. My latest board is a real box of new tricks. It rids small waves astonishingly well, with incredibly long rids on waves nobody else seem to make that includes long board and kids on body boards, I drives past sections and climb faces with my 110kg bulk.However at speed in pitching barrels it jumps onto the inside wing tip, blasting away like a rocket. The lift and trim centres move way outside the centre of gravity.Allmost like a car with sever turbo boost losing traction. I think the Beast can be controlled. When I do manhandle it down a section planning on one wing tip it is eye wateringly fast!!It tracks in front of foamys well helping me link sections of amazing length.The wing tips are 600mm apart way bigger than you sugested . I suggest it’s like a skim board at speed and a long board in the slower mush
The transition between the foil in the water and on top is dramatic

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by Atlantasurfer » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:04 pm

I would love to see some videos of the Beast in action. :)

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by bgreen » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:32 pm

Chris,

Does your ride report mean this board rides better than the earlier boards? Was this finless?

Bob

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by CHRISPI » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:35 pm

Coordinating a video shot for the surf is as challenging as making the board, to get a camera and a competent surf savvy cameraman together on a good day with good light is a challenge, the unemployed can’t afford pro camera crews. But I am working on it

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by CHRISPI » Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:55 pm

Bob this is the most area I have used so far on the slower ,small ,mushy stuff it’s the best so far. On the fast steep stuff where I wanted improvement it has become a handful. It really rattles my teeth it’s not intuitive any more, going finless made a huge improvement.But I am only on ride 4 and I havent had it in chalenging conditions yet.I have to relearn body positioning .

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Re: My lates Wing board

Unread post by SURFFOILS » Fri Mar 20, 2015 5:01 am

Hi Chris, sometimes life kicks you in the balls and nothing else matters...
But I'm back !
Did you find that the lift on the inside wing means you have to lean right into the wave and tilt the board ?

Here's a new foil for a kiteboard from a U.S. (?) company.
I think it's basicslly a twin (fore/ aft ) foil setup with side rails for safety and stability.
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Here's a board I rode today but I'm not sure if it's good or shite....
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And I agree Chris that getting someone to video a prone rider is very hard even if you're foiling.
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