california surfcrafts (cork boards)

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
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krusher74
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california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by krusher74 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:10 pm

Spotted these the other day , A full sized bodyboard/paipo in cork/eco resin and a mini paipo :D

http://californiasurfcraft.com/products/bodypo

and

http://californiasurfcraft.com/products ... mini-paipo

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by bgreen » Fri Jan 02, 2015 5:20 pm

Hello Krusher,

Sounds very interesting. They'd have to flex. I've ridden a board with a cork deck that Huie from Swaylocks had made me, but it didn't have two layers of cork, as far as I know. Durability would be interesting in terms of the bond between the cork and the bottom layer (then there is repair ease)

On the downside imagine being surrounded by a sea of guys riding the same design (depends what limited release means).

Novelty or the future. Worth following it's fate.

Bob

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by OG-AZN » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:47 pm

I've seen the maker of those bodypos in the water a few times on his handboards. I'll hit him up for test ride if I see him again. I'm curious as to how much float the bodypo has,and how much stiffness vs flex. Interesting concept.

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by krusher74 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:01 am

OG-AZN wrote:I've seen the maker of those bodypos in the water a few times on his handboards. I'll hit him up for test ride if I see him again. I'm curious as to how much float the bodypo has,and how much stiffness vs flex. Interesting concept.

Cool, if you see him,ask if he would like to come to the forums and provide 1st hand insight into his design :D

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by bgreen » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:00 am

Trevor,

Some feedback would be interesting. I e-mailed the guy but didn't hear back.

Bob

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:22 am

I emailed some questions about bottom contours and custom sizing and got this back
I've tried flat bottoms and contoured bottoms on the Bodypo. I thought the channels would create more hold. That might be true with bodyboards, but the thin rails on the Bodypo change the dynamics considerably. I couldn't feel any different between the two options. It's really the rails of the Bodypo that are holding the line, not the bottom contour, so I dropped the channels and I plan to make them flat for the first run of boards.

A concave is a good idea, though, and worth trying. I have significant, rail-to-rail concave in my handplanes, and it creates an enormous amount of lift and direction for the small amount of surface area. I think having the concave throughout the entire width is key, though. The concave designs that carve out a concave 1/3 of the way into the board, and not all the way to the edge, just create hydrodynamic turbulence and disorganized drag. Don't surprise the water, that's my philosophy. Surprising the water always creates drag.

So a concave is possible, but I need to make the mold for that. (Bodypo are pressed over a mold to create their shape, similar to the way you'd shape a skateboard.) Once I get the first run of boards out I'll experiment with more bottom contours.

Regarding the size - the Bodypo are 39" right now. The cork sheets come in max 39" lengths, so that's why I do that. It is certainly possible to combine sheets of cork together to make longer boards, though, and that's something I'm working on right now. I'll have to pick 2 or 3 standards lengths for now, which I think will be probably 39", 42" and 45". I'm figuring out the manufacturing process right now, and trying to accomodate this in. I'd like the first run of boards to have at least 2 of different lengths. This is a question I get a lot. What size would you prefer?

I'm not sure how it'll all shake out, but this is my ideal scenario — I get help from a manufacturer to make the standard Bodypo models and sizes, which frees up my time to make custom and experimental boards. So yeah, one day I'll definitely be able to make a custom order for you, but it'll be awhile for I can get to that. Right now I'm working on setting up the manufacturer with what he needs, then raising the money we need for the first batch.

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by bgreen » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:52 pm

Thanks Geoffrey,

Sounds like early days. The dimensions was something I was interested in.

Bob

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by krusher74 » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:26 pm

I don't think from what I have found on my boards that I would agree with the full width concave reasoning

The bottom shape in the typical alaia have the move from concave to V to create drag,which is hold and various things I have talked about before.

The old bodyboards were just flat bottomed, they did hold a rail, but not as well as when the channels were added.

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:28 am

Got this yesterday
Hi Geoffrey -

I'm planning a small, initial run of 20 numbered Bodypo within the next few weeks. Some of the boards will be sold (probably auctioned through my eBay store) and some of them will be kept as testers.
The boards will have a contoured top, 5/8" thin rails, and a flat bottom with a short rocker through the nose. We've been able to modify our manufacturing techniques to accommodate a variety of lengths and outlines, starting with the six options below.

I'd be very interested to hear your feedback on the shapes and lengths - which ones you are interested in, which ones you are not interested in and why. Your opinion will directly impact what kind of boards I make in the future. Please hit reply and let me know.

After this very small production run, I'll have a better idea of what it will take to make more boards, and how much they will cost. I'll need to raise the money for a full run with a Kickstarter campaign, during which I'll be able to take the first Bodypo orders. If all goes well, we'll be riding cork boards before summer!

Thanks -

Dave Hahn
dave@californiasurfcraft.com

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by bgreen » Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:45 pm

Og-Azn as test pilot I reckon.

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by bgreen » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:17 am

I heard from Dave last night. We may hear more form him soon.

Bob

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by davehahn » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:08 am

Hi everyone, this is Dave from California Surfcraft. I came across this post and I hope it's ok if I jump in. I'm glad you guys are interested in the design and materials, and I'm happy to answer any questions you have. I already apologized to Bob in an email, but sorry again — I know he was trying to get a hold of me and I should have written him back sooner.

I see a few questions that I can answer right away...

Float

Cork floats more than wood, but less than foam. It's hard to beat foam at buoyancy. And why bother? My think we over-estimate our need for buoyancy in watercraft, and I'm sure you guys, as paipo riders, agree with me. That said, the Bodypo still has a nice float to it, and the bodyboarders that have tested the board say they like it.

Flex

Similar to the last answer, the Bodypo flexes more than wood, but less than foam. The flex of the board is related to the thickness of the cork, the weight of the fiberglass and how much resin is used. The mechanics of composite design state that when a composite is made twice as thick, it becomes 8 times as stiff. My boards have a center dorsal "bump" on the top of the board - you can see this in all the photos. This bump has a few functions. It makes the board thicker and stiffer in the center. In that way it acts like a stringer, but because it covers a larger area it distributes the stiffness differently than a traditional stringer. (It also creates more float.)

The current Bodypo design is pretty stiff (for speed), but as paipo riders, you'd all notice the flex. The bodyboarders that have tested the board say they have to adjust to having less flex than their foam boards. But they seem willing to make the adjustment to get the speed.

Bottom Contour

Apologies to krusher74 — I was probably speaking out of turn to Geoffrey in that email. I haven't tested the full-width concave, so I shouldn't say that's the best way to do it. I'd like to try a variety of designs, including a rail-to-rail concave. The Bodypo are starting with a flat bottom because I've tested that extensively and I know it works great, it's super fast and holds a line well when combined with thin rails.

Custom Sizing

Things have changed a little since I last wrote to Geoffrey. We've come up with a great way to accommodate custom sizes and shapes, up to 44". The first sizes and shapes that we're releasing are detailed in this blog post: http://californiasurfcraft.com/blogs/ne ... nitial-run

There is also talk of offering Bodypo blanks, where you could cut your own size and shape at home. See: http://californiasurfcraft.com/blogs/ne ... -adventure

This last option might be really cool for DIY paipo riders that want to use cork and want to decide the shape themselves.

I'm happy to answer any other questions you all have. I hope I didn't crash the party — I'm just stoked to talk design and cork and whatever else comes up. Thanks.

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by Poobah » Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:09 am

Have you experimented much with the template of the dorsal bump? I was thinking of a pintail bump to give more flex to the rear corners of the board.

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by davehahn » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:31 am

Poobah wrote:I was thinking of a pintail bump to give more flex to the rear corners of the board.
That's the right idea!

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by krusher74 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:58 pm

No ones ever crashing this party! all welcome and ts always great to hear first hand about boards from there designers. :D

Its great to see, someone using differant materials.

Are you using corecork like the lost boards?

Any idea how many liters is for example a 42" board, or how high does a person float sitting on it?

I might just have to get me one! :shock:

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by davehahn » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:35 pm

krusher74 wrote:Are you using corecork like the lost boards?
Yeah - I get the sheets from Core Composites in RI. Good stuff. However, there's a company in SoCal that recycles used cork into the same kind of sheets. They are working on the quality control right now. But it's possible, one day, to make these boards out of recycled wine corks. How cool would that be?
krusher74 wrote:Any idea how many liters is for example a 42" board, or how high does a person float sitting on it?
It's float is closer to paipo than bodyboard. It's enough to sit on in the lineup, but it's easy to duck dive and sits deep in the pocket. Its theme song in the lineup is LOW RIDER :lol:

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by krusher74 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:56 pm

Oh and help Dave out with his survey for a $5 coupon

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CGS22HQ

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by nok » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:38 pm

Got this email this morning. Some opportunities to demo the bodypo.

"I'm roadtripping down from San Francisco this week to start production on the Bodypo in Oceanside, CA. While I'm here I've organized a few test/demo days in Venice, HB and San Clemente. The links below take you to the FB events, where you can find more info:

Jan 31, 2pm: Venice Beach
Feb 1, 2pm: Huntington Beach
Feb 2, 9:30am: San Clemente
If you want to keep up with the road trip and the progress on the Bodypo, I'm posting long updates on the blog and short updates on Instagram. I should have a big update on the Bodypo within a week or two.

In the meantime, check out this cool review and video clip of the Bodypo from Adrian Rejon.
Hope to see you soon -

Dave Hahn"

Here are the links to the blog and and a review with a video.

http://californiasurfcraft.com/blogs/ne ... f4859ee0e6

http://www.coastalplayground.com/blog/f ... f4859ee0e6

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by matt23 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:50 pm

With the blanks..Is the cork on each side of equal thickness? Cork/glass/cork..or is it thicker on the hull side? How does the cork sand? Does it knock chunks out

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Re: california surfcrafts (cork boards)

Unread post by davehahn » Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:26 am

It's a little different than you're picturing. See this diagram:
39-inch-Bat-Tail-blow-out-diagram_large.jpg
39-inch-Bat-Tail-blow-out-diagram_large.jpg (38.26 KiB) Viewed 2664 times
And this one:
Construction-Illustration_c400d86d-2600-4f70-bc51-7921360b647b_large.jpg
Construction-Illustration_c400d86d-2600-4f70-bc51-7921360b647b_large.jpg (63.12 KiB) Viewed 2664 times
The cork is sandwiched between layers of fiberglass. That's what gives it its strength. I could stop there, but I put another thin sheet of cork on top to give it a fully cork look, to add some float, and give the top some grip. Mechanically, though, the strength of the board is in the opposing layers of fiberglass. The cork is there to be a spacer between the fiberglass layers (the further the distance between the layers, the stiffer the resulting composite) and to add buoyancy.

The production boards we're working on right now are a combination of 1/2", 3/8" and 1/8" cork. The board ends up 1" in the center, and 5/8" at the rails. The blanks would be the same.

Cork sands like a dream. And it cuts like butter. You have to see it to believe it. It doesn't crumble like you'd expect it to. One day I'll make videos about all this stuff.

What do you think of the idea of selling blanks? Would you be interested in that? Of course you'd probably want to see them first, but at least in theory?

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