T-Belly Gen 4x

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
GeoffreyLevens
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 384
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:58 am
City: Paonia
State or Province: Colorado
Country: USA
Location: Paonia, Colorado
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#41

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

Rod, I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth but I think he meant to compare all 3 of your diagrams as "normal rail" to this i.e. "chine rail"

Image
User avatar
rodndtube
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 1158
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:34 pm
City: Arbutus Land
State or Province: Maryland
Country: USA
Interests: Waveriding, travel and the Paipo Research Project
Location: Maryland, USA & Where the Waves Are Breaking
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#42

Unread post by rodndtube »

My read was inconclusive as to the "standard" rail type being compared and whether or not that standard was throughout the entire length of the rail. The behaviors of the "standard" rail types vary widely.
P. S. The chine is also in the figure I posted but need to scroll down.
rodNDtube
"Prone to ride"
I love my papa li`ili`i

"The sea doth wash away all human ills."
-- Euripides.
CHRISPI
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 340
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:48 pm
City: Durban
State or Province: Natals
Country: South Africa

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#43

Unread post by CHRISPI »

I don’t understand Slab sided boards, in nature and in engineering nothing that works in water finishes without a taper??The explanation I get is to slid a wing profile side ways ??
User avatar
krusher74
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 842
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:53 pm
City: easkey
State or Province: co sligo
Country: Ireland
Interests: Surfing, vintage cars and motorbikes
Location: Easky, Co sligo , ireland
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#44

Unread post by krusher74 »

GeoffreyLevens wrote:Rod, I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth but I think he meant to compare all 3 of your diagrams as "normal rail" to this i.e. "chine rail"

Image
Yes, that's basically what I meant. (i'm only talking about the back 3rd of the rail as this is what i'm bottom turning of and finding the loose vs locked in difference.

My "normal rail" is a tucked performance shortboard rail (although maybe of a higher volume for the boards size)

And my chine rail is an extreme bottom chine, just round over into deck of board.

Here is a pic , (my scale is off thought so the bottom rail is drawn to big try to imagine them at the same board thickness) :(

Bodyboards having hard edges everywhere should release water and have poor hold, but they dont so what's going on there? Maybe I should e-mail tom morey.
Attachments
2016-10-030.jpg
2016-10-030.jpg (107.65 KiB) Viewed 3804 times
User avatar
rodndtube
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 1158
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:34 pm
City: Arbutus Land
State or Province: Maryland
Country: USA
Interests: Waveriding, travel and the Paipo Research Project
Location: Maryland, USA & Where the Waves Are Breaking
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#45

Unread post by rodndtube »

If I am reading you correctly the rail holding issue is with turning and not holding a line on a steep wave face. Maybe that has something to do with the geometry of the rail to the wave face if you are turning on the rail (on a finless board) which would become more exaggerated for a thick rail board with lots of float. If I am visualizing this correctly a hard rail turn with a hard surfboard rail on the steep wave face a person is virtually turning on the top side of the board and not the "hard" edge of the rail whereas the 50-50 rail would have an edge in the wave face.
rodNDtube
"Prone to ride"
I love my papa li`ili`i

"The sea doth wash away all human ills."
-- Euripides.
User avatar
krusher74
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 842
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:53 pm
City: easkey
State or Province: co sligo
Country: Ireland
Interests: Surfing, vintage cars and motorbikes
Location: Easky, Co sligo , ireland
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#46

Unread post by krusher74 »

rodndtube wrote:If I am reading you correctly the rail holding issue is with turning and not holding a line on a steep wave face. Maybe that has something to do with the geometry of the rail to the wave face if you are turning on the rail (on a finless board) which would become more exaggerated for a thick rail board with lots of float. If I am visualizing this correctly a hard rail turn with a hard surfboard rail on the steep wave face a person is virtually turning on the top side of the board and not the "hard" edge of the rail whereas the 50-50 rail would have an edge in the wave face.
just holding a line you can't feel much difference, but once bottom turning hard,(on take off or along the wave) you ask the rail for grip and that's when the difference is apparent. Mayye you are right and what happening is it's using the top edge of the rail.
So its not a chine rail, it a flat faced up rail. :?
User avatar
nomastomas
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:30 am
City: Ojai
State or Province: CA
Country: USA
Interests: Surfing, cycling and fishing
Location: Ojai, CA
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#47

Unread post by nomastomas »

Here's a photo of one of my New England customers getting the most out of his G4. This one is a twin-fin, but he just ordered a G4 3" shorter and with Quad-fins. This is a prime example of one the values of CNC shaping. I was able to shorten the length, while keeping the same outline in the rear-half of the board. The shortened length required a 1-1/2" wider nose than the 46 in order to maintain a similar outline curve. I added 1/8" thickness to maintain the same volume (19L), but retained all of the same bottom contours.
Attachments
unnamed.jpg
"This is a paipo site...isn't it?"
www.tp4surf.com
User avatar
bgreen
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 1232
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:17 pm
City: Brisbane
State or Province: Qld
Country: Oz
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#48

Unread post by bgreen »

It will be interesting to hear what the guy thinks of the twin vs the quad.
User avatar
nomastomas
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:30 am
City: Ojai
State or Province: CA
Country: USA
Interests: Surfing, cycling and fishing
Location: Ojai, CA
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#49

Unread post by nomastomas »

The single, most frequent comment I get from new G4 riders is how fast the board is compared to whatever else they have ridden. I believe that this speed (in most cases) comes from being able to harness the power of the wave that exists in the upper third of the wave face',i.e. maintaining a high line. As I have often stated, I believe that maintaining a high line is directly related to the use of fins, with fin size as the defining variable. I always recommend a quad set-up because it allows a wide range of fin area that can be adjusted to match rider weight and specific wave size. But often times, my customers are convinced that they only need a twin-fin board. And, choosing standard LB side-bites doesn't help. This particular customer is a case in point. He started with 3.7x3.5 side-bites and found that he was side-slipping a bit in critical parts of the wave. I encourage him to increase the fin size to 4.5 deep which helped a lot. Then, after gaining some experience with the shape, he decided to move to a shorter length, and a quad set-up. I recommended 4" front fins and 3.7" rear fins for his weight (165lb in wetsuit) and for waves like the one pictured above. A rider whose weight is under 150lb can get away with a twin-fin G4, as long as they use fins that are 4' or bigger. I have a few female customers that fall into this category.
"This is a paipo site...isn't it?"
www.tp4surf.com
User avatar
bgreen
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 1232
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:17 pm
City: Brisbane
State or Province: Qld
Country: Oz
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#50

Unread post by bgreen »

Nomatomas,

I'll try to start a new thread on what I reckon some of my boards do best I haven't had a problem keeping a high line with finless boards, I have had some issues with low volume boards having less stability when there is turbulence or push from white water.


Bob
User avatar
nomastomas
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:30 am
City: Ojai
State or Province: CA
Country: USA
Interests: Surfing, cycling and fishing
Location: Ojai, CA
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#51

Unread post by nomastomas »

bgreen wrote:It will be interesting to hear what the guy thinks of the twin vs the quad.
Customer Tim wrote "Peaky waist to chest this morning-I like more drive and maneuverability of quad-43 not too short!"
Attachments
TimsNewG4_43.JPG
"This is a paipo site...isn't it?"
www.tp4surf.com
User avatar
rodndtube
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 1158
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:34 pm
City: Arbutus Land
State or Province: Maryland
Country: USA
Interests: Waveriding, travel and the Paipo Research Project
Location: Maryland, USA & Where the Waves Are Breaking
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#52

Unread post by rodndtube »

Is that board 43 inches or 4 ft. 3 in.? Looks like a happy rider :)
rodNDtube
"Prone to ride"
I love my papa li`ili`i

"The sea doth wash away all human ills."
-- Euripides.
User avatar
nomastomas
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:30 am
City: Ojai
State or Province: CA
Country: USA
Interests: Surfing, cycling and fishing
Location: Ojai, CA
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#53

Unread post by nomastomas »

43"
"This is a paipo site...isn't it?"
www.tp4surf.com
User avatar
bgreen
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 1232
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:17 pm
City: Brisbane
State or Province: Qld
Country: Oz
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#54

Unread post by bgreen »

Thanks. How thick is the board? Sorry if it is posted elsewhere, I'm getting lazy.
User avatar
nomastomas
Big Wave Charger
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:30 am
City: Ojai
State or Province: CA
Country: USA
Interests: Surfing, cycling and fishing
Location: Ojai, CA
Contact:

Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

#55

Unread post by nomastomas »

concave on deck and bottom, so..
centerline 1.75" at center
2" in from outline 2" thick at center
"This is a paipo site...isn't it?"
www.tp4surf.com
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 42 guests