Which paipo for hollow waves ?

[SJB]

My two cents worth.
1. The best bet if the wave is not too big and gnarly is up to the top and and over or through the lip. This presupposes you have enough speed and geography to make such a maneuver.
2. If a crunching is inevitable why not just turn toward shore...take the hit....and pull out the back of the white water?
3. I ride a float craft so I do have a leash and will occasionally let it go in the white water if I am having difficulty getting out the back side.....but since I am already headed toward shore I find myself on the ocean side of the passing wave and the board on the shore side. Minimal chance of physical contact with the board.
I do wear a helmet if there is size and a crowd.....especially if there are SUPs in the water. We had a sizable swell here Wed/Thurs and as is typical I hang a bit on the inside and down the line from the big boards and pick up what they cannot catch and/or cannot make. The beauty for me for belly boarding is the ability to take a more critical drop than most stand up surfers. Having said that....I got caught inside on a clean up set....and low and behold an inexperienced and idiot KAYAKER on the outside got caught on a bomb and lost it. I could see that monster bouncing sideways a 100 yards out....and its trajectory put the fear of God in me. I scrambled and it flew by and missed me by inches. I was once hit and bruised by a runaway surf board but if that kayak had hit me at speed....helmet or no helmet....my bell would have been more than rung and no amount of body armor would have spared me broken bones. That night I had nightmares about the near miss.
Be more aware and concerned about other craft in the line up than being clocked by your own board.

[rodndtube]

Now, now, Señor Tómas!

Zensuni, you should listen to soulglider. You can tell he's super cool by the fact that he "never ever" uses a leash, his frequent use of the term "brah" and his quickness to deride others. What a great guy...

I religiously use a leash. Usually the question is whether to use a 6' or 7' leash and I wear it around my wrist for more control (easy to grab and pull the board back on those occasions I lose the board). The 6 ft. leash is my normal for up to 8 ft. waves, then I graduate to the 7 ft. leash. I also don't use my leashes after two years except as spares at soft, low-impact beaches and then mostly as a convenience in paddling out in shallow sandy shore break waters (in other words reverse walking my board out in shallow white water which is easier to do with holding the leash a couple feet from the nose). The very thin, neutral buoyancy boards do tend to stick around more than the floatier boards. One thing you do not want to do is to be releasing your board during on-coming waves when anyone is around you.... important surf etiquette rule. Learn to eat it in those circumstances!

For what it is worth, I also religiously use fin tethers. Learned my lesson one early Sunday morning at Big Rock on a nice 4-5 ft day when the fur ball in the tube sucked my fin right off my left foot. No more surfing for me that early morning.

[rodndtube]

LOL, forgot once last piece of protective wear that I use at a couple of breaks: rib protectors. You will see surfing specific chest protectors that are integrated into the rash guard -- I don't care for that style as they can't be interchanged with different rash/lycra shirts. Okay, you probably won't need the rib/chest protectors if you are already wearing a 3 to 7mm wetsuit. The protector I use was developed for lacrosse players, are not bulky, and shed water. The issue mentioned at the beginning of the thread, "water skipping," is relevant here. When riding an open ocean wave there is invariably some cross chop from swell or wind on what otherwise appears to be a very clean day. But the speed, wind and every so little bump can create a real pounding on the ribs.

[SJB]

On another subject...
How satisfying it is when stand up surfers are scratching for the horizon and a belly boarder can turn and burn on a dime for a late down the line take off....
sometimes involving an air drop but if one can hang on through that first critical section it turns into the fast and furious.
Belly boarding....there is no substitute.

[rodndtube]

Amen!

[zensuni]

Yesterday I didn't use a leach as I was alone, playing on the shorebreacks and reforms. But I'll definitly add a leach, for safety of me and others. The coolness will come itself at some point, when I will have develloped some riding skills That said, I tend to avoid crowded lineups, there is always more and more people in the water year after year, and the surf etiquette isn't always applied (or even known by occasionnal riders). By the way, do you guys see a lot of paipo riders in the water ? I have never seen a single one here, and if I wouldn't have watched "the endless summer" I wouldn't even known it existed.

[kage]

I like a leash and I hold on.
In big surf -- if the ocean wants your board it's going to take it.

[GeoffreyLevens]

That said, I tend to avoid crowded lineups..

This of course begs the question, "If you get an insane, truly epic ride and no one else is there to see it...do you still get coolness points?"
(See "tree falling in forest" and the noise factor vs audience.)

[Nels]

Jeez...I got into this to NOT be cool...and near as I can tell it's worked so far! Winning!

I have always hated leashes, just hate the feeling. Have used them once they came into the world, first just at rocky beaches like where nomastomas rides. Eventually had to just because the crowd was so clueless that a loose board might be a loose board. There was an online surf community by that time and it was rife with complete pricks who insisted they never ever wiped out and thus never were not in total contact and control of their boards and that anybody who did was a kook.I call them liars and I piss on those people from a high place, and began moving almost exclusively into prone equipment and bodysurfing. Have never leashed a bodyboard or paipo although I don't have a problem with it. Not riding waves with serious consequence much anymore though and that makes a huge difference.

As Mr. Natural says: "Get the right tool for the job!".

[rodndtube]

That said, I tend to avoid crowded lineups..

This of course begs the question, "If you get an insane, truly epic ride and no one else is there to see it...do you still get coolness points?"
(See "tree falling in forest" and the noise factor vs audience.)

Coolness points should be based on water temps! If you want to be cool, ride in cool water. If you want to be chill, ride those cold water spots. If you want to be hot, ride the tropics

[SJB]

Geoffrey's observation gives a proud Father an opportunity to drop in my Son's Band song "Dreamers" that Shaun Tomson used to close out his movie "Bustin Down the Door".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIHzibBC5p0

[zensuni]

If I wanted to look cool I would have bought a surf board
Riding prone is rarely considered as something cool as far as I know, I guess it is an animal thing in some people mind, they consider that standing up is quite a proud posture to dominate the ocean or something like that.
I consider "cool" those people that you call "watermen", guys who can escape a wave, body surf to come back if they lose their board, etc...
When I am in the water I don't care too much about looking good, I only care about the next wave coming toward me.
Being so much focus on the water is like little vacations for my brain, I forget all the other issues. I don't feel it that much in other sports, that's probably why I can wake up at 4am and drive an hour to practice a sport I am not even good at.
That's also very hard to explain to my wife, she knows I m not such a great bodyboarder so she doesn't get the point to make it even harder using a wooden board instead of a boogie board. But she admitted that the latest wooden board I built was quite decorative, which is something at least .

[Nels]

That's a good angle...tell the wife it's Art, not Sport...

[bgreen]

Zensuni,

I stayed at La Porge and the coast seemed to face a somewhat different direction and certainly had different waves to Lacanau which I visited a couple of times. Regarding travel, a time honoured tradition is the surf trip. It's a haul to the area around Biarritz but worth doing now and then to experience different waves and conditions.

With the exception of Hawaii & California, as far as I know most people who ride paipo don't have other paipo riders to surf with, or very few, so it is a solo pursuit. There are probably pockets of alaia riders around the place.

"

That's also very hard to explain to my wife, she knows I m not such a great bodyboarder so she doesn't get the point to make it even harder using a wooden board instead of a boogie board.

.

There is a history of prone surfing in Europe that is little documented. See http://home.brisnet.com.au/~bgreen/Europe/index2.shtml

Someone on this web-site quoted the saying - the best surfer in the water is the one having the most fun. This is a rough recollection, but surfing is about having fun in the ocean.

Bob

[krusher74]

You have Ex world bodyboard champion Bodyboard Pierre Louis (PLC) as inspiration

Here are two videos, one of him on a wood finless paipo. and the second showing his bodyboard skills at bunkers (hoggegor)

https://vimeo.com/20185680

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZVAzwt8q8M

[zensuni]

There is a history of prone surfing in Europe that is little documented. See http://home.brisnet.com.au/~bgreen/Europe/index2.shtml

Bob, that's an interresting link. I asked a few people about the planky, but nobody seems to recall it. Only a french guy on a surf forum told me that he used it when he was a kid in the late 60's and stopped after being hurt in a shorebreack. Also he told me these boards were mainly considered as beach toys, like flat disk skimboards of your url (soucoupe). Your url also mentions something called "glissvag" which is a contraction of "glisse vague" (wave slip), it is described as an inflatable PVC "sea luge", which is an interesting comparison.

[zensuni]

You have Ex world bodyboard champion Bodyboard Pierre Louis (PLC) as inspiration

Here are two videos, one of him on a wood finless paipo. and the second showing his bodyboard skills at bunkers (hoggegor)

https://vimeo.com/20185680

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZVAzwt8q8M

Krusher74, yes I watched this video already, which is very impressive by the way
But he seems to ride this plywood board with a boogie board style, he even goes for boogie tricks !
This is a great performance, but I don't think this is what wood boards are made for.
However, that's cool to see a pro bodyboarder playing around with a paipo.

I see that you live in uk, how are the ways over there ? Are they paipo compatible ?

[Uncle Grumpy]

Two of my favorite videos:

everything's clear now.........
http://www.korduroy.tv/shows/all-yew/ch ... paipo-pt1/
Hollow
http://www.korduroy.tv/shows/all-yew/chad-waldron-pt2/

[OG-AZN]

..This is a great performance, but I don't think this is what wood boards are made for.

Nonsense!! The only rule for riding a wood paipo "correctly" is to ride it whatever way feels the most fun to you. I'm old enough to remember seeing many of the old skool paipo riders in Hawai'i, and those folks rode "any 'kine style". Every conceivable way prone, on knees and even stand up. Tricks, speed, barrels, cruising; it's all good.

What's the best wood paipo for hollow waves? Since you're new to paipo, I think your best bet is the tombstone shape or slightly modified tombstone with the wide point a little behind the middle of the board. That shape is fast & easily controllabe in the barrel, even without fins (skegs). Look at the shape ridden by PLC in the vid, the boards made by Wegner, or even the bamboo-cork one shaped by Dave of Californiasurfcraft for ideas. If you're using plywood or heavy solid wood, I'd advise against a leash for safety reasons, and it will make you a better surfer in the long run. If the weight of the board is bothering you, try downsizing the board to 3/4 or 1/2 size. You'll find the smaller board easier to control in the closeouts too.

I'm surprised you say you're having difficulty making it to the outside with a paipo. Paipos duck dive better than any other craft and you expend less energy than swimming out without a board. What kind of swim fins are you using? You might need more "horsepower" in that area. On that note, practice using your swim fins and legs for control in place of skegs and to help you "scoop" into steep hollow waves. Back in the early days of bodyboarding, a lot of riders retained the paipo style of riding way up on the nose, trying to keep their legs out of the water. That's good for speed, but also leads to lots of skipping, bouncing and sliding out as those old vids show. Over time, riders learning to dig their legs and swim fins into the wave when necessary has allowed the new generations to ride waves and conditions thought impossible before. Look at the bodyboard vids of guys riding Chopes, Fronton, etc, etc to see what I mean. These techniques work well in less critical hollow beach break for paipos too.

I've been told that my current home break, Ocean Beach, SF is very similar to the waves in your region. Your pic of the SUP guy paddling out looks exactly like OB in fall & winter. Here's my old VGA Gopro vid of riding finless, leashless plywood paipos at OB and in Hawai'i, both bodyboard and old paipo style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6h-ZYh ... CQ&index=5

[soulglider]

Well said Trevor!