Which paipo for hollow waves ?

[nomastomas]

WOW!!

[Poobah]

I know the focus here in this thread was wood boards, but I think it's worth mentioning John Galera's fiberglass boards.

http://mypaipoboards.org/interviews/Joh ... 0922.shtml

[Nels]

Nice catch there Rod. It should be noted that Damron was riding very "paipo style" with one hand up front and another way back down the rail and her torso a bit off center, as if learned on HPD style paipo. There was another guy from that era..can't think of his name now, started with two initials and first was J. I think...I remember him actually saying in an interview that he rode that way. Probably more useful in big fast Hawaiian style waves.

Those early commercial Boogies, very flexible! Closest thing these days is a mat. And they aren't all that close...

Nels

[zensuni]

rodndtube, what a bumpy ride it seems to be on the video you posted !

[Uncle Grumpy]

Hard to believe in retrospect but yes Phyllis charged Waimea on a first generation Boogie, the ones that were so limp you could fold 'em.






Mike Stewart has gotten as deep as anyone on the planet.
What's he on these days?

[GeoffreyLevens]

Limp absorbs the bumps MUCH better! I remember Dale Solomonson telling me he loved those original ones, in many ways much closer to his surf mats and that he thought Morey ruined them when he stiffened them up, took all the "life" out of them and also slowed them down and his perception was that the limp make them actually go faster, just like w/ mats (low inflation for speed, higher/harder inflation for edge hold and control)

[Nels]

Stewart seems more well-known today for bodysurfing, although he still is involved with producing good bodyboards. But there's a guy who pretty well remains under radar.

J.T. Nickelson...might have been the guy I alluded to in an earlier post about paipo style riding. No way to lock that down as bodyboarding never developed a standing culture, for lack of a better term.

Dale's tri plane "bodyboards" were pretty rigid though. No time to figure out the photo posting today so here's a url...probably Good for a Limited Time Only...

http://vagabondsurf.com/TriplaneBodyboardsAgain.html

[rodndtube]

rodndtube, what a bumpy ride it seems to be on the video you posted !

Large swells, tremendous power, some cross chop in the water, tremendous wind forces coming up the face of the wave, and high speed will make many a prone board skip around. Even the big boy boards are flying every which direction unexpectedly dismounting their standing foot surfers. There are some things one can do to mitigate their paipo board slide in those conditions... go very flexi ala mat surfing or build a significant wave piercing hull in the forward section of the board. Probably lots of other ideas as well!

[bgreen]

Rod,

The skipping stone phenomena and causes/solutions get a bit of mention on this thread:

http://mypaipoboards.org/forum3/viewtop ... ping#p6106

http://mypaipoboards.org/forum3/viewtop ... ping#p5993

The other angle, in relation to Zensuni's e-mail was that of riding overhead hollow-closeouts. As the joke goes, it's always overhead on a paipo. Maybe to learn more about this style of board it might be worth considering starting with some less challenging conditions. But then again, some like the deep end as a place to start.

Bob

[zensuni]

Hi there !
I finished to shave and seal the board, I also took your advices in account and built a new board (the right one on the picture bellow) with a simple shape, finless, sharp rails.
Yet it is still made of pine wood, so no rocker and no flex. The yellow stripe is to make the board more visible in the water.
I had a chance to test it this morning. As usually the conditions were too big for the beginner I am (bloody winter...), so I didn't pass the barre, just played with reforms. I took a couple of smooth, well shaped of them, and I really appreciated it.
The take off was not a problem obviously, since I was able to touch the bottom. Then the paipo just flew, it was speed and smooth in the same time, the trajectory was easy to maintain. Duck diving is so easy with that little board. I'm looking forward to test it in better conditions.
I'm not a great body boarder, but I'd say the biggest difference I felt between this paipo and body boards is the stiffness and the flat board, which makes the paipo slipping along the wave like a wet soap.
Since I was in shallow water I was a little concerned about being hit by the board, so I developed some skills in throwing out the board as far as possible from me when I felt I was about to be wiped out. Are you guys often hit by your board ? Do you wear an helmet ?

paipo.jpg (63.66 KiB) Viewed 69748 times

[soulglider]

never been hit by my wood boards. the stiffness difference you feel between boards is accurate. 1/2 inch plywood would give you a more flexible board.

[zensuni]

Nice board soulglider, is there a rocker on both nose and tail ?

[zensuni]

Maybe to learn more about this style of board it might be worth considering starting with some less challenging conditions. But then again, some like the deep end as a place to start.

I agree, it would be much better to start with less challenging conditions, the problem I have is that where I live the waves are shaped like that, so I have to live with it. Most of the time I can't even reach the lineup, so I just practice on early shore breacks or reforms. In summer there are more opportunities. When I said overhead I meant 40 / 60 inches, but once again the problem is not really the size, it is more the way it breacks and closes out, and the waves frequency which gives you only a few seconds between 2 waves.

[bgreen]

Zensuni,

"Since I was in shallow water I was a little concerned about being hit by the board, so I developed some skills in throwing out the board as far as possible from me when I felt I was about to be wiped out. Are you guys often hit by your board ? Do you wear an helmet ? "

The skill you need to develop is pulling through the back of the wave before it closes out. You don't want to develop the habit of throwing your board away. Once you progress this creates a hazard for others and you'll do a lot of swimming. There are other techniques, but these depend on conditions. I don't recall getting hit by a wood board - if so it wasn't memorable.

It sounds like you're making progress. The other thing to consider is wave choice. Catching the better waves in a session and knowing which ones to catch will also make a world of difference. If you are surfing waves with a short period (very close together) I'm not sure where you are surfing. Waves of less than 8 seconds tend to be wind swells and generated by more local storms, so less organised. Do you just surf the same spot or travel around, if the former consider trying some different spots. Do you know much about surf conditions? Around Biarritz there are waves that work on quite different directions and some will be much easier and better to learn on than others. Send some photos of the waves you are trying to surf.

Bob

[zensuni]

Bob, I surf at Lacanau, which is a little more of the North than Biaritz (2h drive).
The main difference is that near Biarritz (pays basque) you will find different kind of spots, some exposed to the direct swell and some others protected from the swell by some structure (dam, harbor...). Near Lacanau (Gironde), there is nothing to breack the swell, the coast is directly exposed everywhere, so you will have almost the same conditions at any spots. There is nothing but woods, dunes and beaches. The only place where I know there are smaller waves is at the entry of the bassin d'arcachon, but it is more shore breack waves, plus there is a lot of current. I can go norther, to the mouth of the Gironde river, but still there is a tremendous current, and the waves are still quite strong, not really a place to learn. If I really want smaller conditions I would need to go above the Garonne, to Royan, but it starts to be very far. The Gironde surf is known to be "ungrateful", unfortunately, although it is very rewarding for talented short boarders. The others riders have to wait until the summer to have better conditions. Sometimes during the winter we have easier conditions, but it is rare. We also have a lot of rip currents, surfers use them to pass the barre easily.

Here is a picture of nice conditions at Lacanau, that's what you may have during the summer, sometimes:
http://www.lacanauocean.com/image/surf- ... u-1_xl.jpg
I ride similar waves on a boogie board.

This is what we have most of the time during the winter:
In this case I typically remain on the first wave foreground on the picture, when it is well shaped.

I exagerated regarding the period, it is probably not less than 8 seconds (today it was 9 according to surf report), but I feel like it is short.
Since I started boogie boarding, my problem in demanding conditions has always been that I really hesitate to pass the barre (not sure it is called the barre in english) beetwen 2 sets, because I am not sure that I could come back then.

[zensuni]

I forgot the picture of the bad conditions, in winter:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6FpaIWAgf5o/V ... G_8541.JPG

[rodndtube]

Nice job on the boards!

Yes, I do wear a helmet at a couple of places that I ride. Probably should wear one more often but does it ever screw up my hearing (sound vibrations inside the helmet).

[nomastomas]

Your summertime waves look really fun...wintertime, looks pretty gnarly. Although, a guy on a prone board would probably have more success than that SUPer in the photo. Bob's right about the pull-out, either over or through the lip. But sometimes that little shorebreak closeout barrel is too hard to resist. When I find my self in that position, I eject the board backward, away from my head. A 5ft leg leash keeps the board reasonably close.

[soulglider]

this much grinding in the nose. this much isnt necessary but it looks cool. you can try less "kick" and then add more anytime if you can feel its not enough.

bob is right, i never let go of my board, its a really bad habit, and is a kook move brah! LOL. when you first start and youre a bit scarred out there, its temping to push your board away, but dont! I personally NEVER EVER use a leash for my prone boards. the boards not going to hit you if you hold on to it and other folks in the lineup will think you are a STUD, WATERMAN when you NEVER let go of your board. Its not hard once you get over the temptation.

leahes have made contemporary surfers into lazy, sloppy surfers and ONLY kooks let their boards go, you dont wanna be a kook do you? lol. Just remember 1, if its thin wood, they will never go to far "if" you do happen to loose it, because of the neutral buoyancy and 2, my foam boards arent so thick that if i loose it it goes very far, but, then again i dont surf belly whompin close out beach breaks either, just reefers.

continued good luck, stick to it and you'll be a top notch bellyer in no time, brah!

[nomastomas]

Zensuni, you should listen to soulglider. You can tell he's super cool by the fact that he "never ever" uses a leash, his frequent use of the term "brah" and his quickness to deride others. What a great guy...