Which paipo for hollow waves ?
- bgreen
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
Zensuni,
Rod has an article on the paipo articles page where Joel de Rosnay identified as a bellyboard rider before riding a stand-up board. A friend in Reunion is translating an interview with Jacky Rott, so we may learn some more about these boards.
Trevor makes the point that riding one of these boards is an individual experience. There may be techniques that work for one person but not another and a person's prior background influences how they surf - some were kneeboarders, some bodyboarders or bodysurfers. I rode a standup board and have never tried a spinner which gets back to my point about just having fun.
Trevor also made the point about being able to get out the back. Perhaps you're a champion swimmer but there is an argument for becoming competent in the shorebreak before you head out the back. On the other hand, the waves out the back may be easier to ride than the shorebreak. Trial and error, and know your limitations.
Bob
Rod has an article on the paipo articles page where Joel de Rosnay identified as a bellyboard rider before riding a stand-up board. A friend in Reunion is translating an interview with Jacky Rott, so we may learn some more about these boards.
Trevor makes the point that riding one of these boards is an individual experience. There may be techniques that work for one person but not another and a person's prior background influences how they surf - some were kneeboarders, some bodyboarders or bodysurfers. I rode a standup board and have never tried a spinner which gets back to my point about just having fun.
Trevor also made the point about being able to get out the back. Perhaps you're a champion swimmer but there is an argument for becoming competent in the shorebreak before you head out the back. On the other hand, the waves out the back may be easier to ride than the shorebreak. Trial and error, and know your limitations.
Bob
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
We have every sort of wave in wales, Beach breaks like your area, many reefs breaks and a few points, Any wave can be paipoed , just less powerful ones may require more skill to traverse/keep going.zensuni wrote:Krusher74, yes I watched this video already, which is very impressive by the waykrusher74 wrote:You have Ex world bodyboard champion Bodyboard Pierre Louis (PLC) as inspiration
Here are two videos, one of him on a wood finless paipo. and the second showing his bodyboard skills at bunkers (hoggegor)
https://vimeo.com/20185680
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZVAzwt8q8M
But he seems to ride this plywood board with a boogie board style, he even goes for boogie tricks !
This is a great performance, but I don't think this is what wood boards are made for.
However, that's cool to see a pro bodyboarder playing around with a paipo.
I see that you live in uk, how are the ways over there ? Are they paipo compatible ?
I have a 20 year background in bodyboarding and have transferred that style to my paipo design and riding. feel that style is most efficient for speed and manoeuvrability. I Have found that some boards that ave a less and optimum design. (to long to narrow, wrong curve) then you have to work much harder and employ "funky" style to make the function.
This "wood paipo style" you speak of i think is a function of trying to ride a less than optimum design. But any wave riding is fun and do enjoy any board and trying to work out how to ride a wave on it.
If I was surfing the beach breaks of hossegor I would start with a plywood board shaped like these http://mypaipoboards.org/pics/2009_Redw ... Alaias.jpg
http://www.sdfsurfboards.co.uk/ built my paipo!
- zensuni
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
I get your point, one rides the way he wants to, tricks, no tricks, whatever, no rules. I agree, yet, my opinion as a video watcher is that I find the 60's "superman" style on a wooden board more pleasant to watch ( like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBmAqQ_64u0 ), more aesthetic. I know that the boogie board tricks are a logic evolution, it is just not my cup of tea.
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
Here is more superman style - https://vimeo.com/9742493
It's probably more functional on some style of boards than others.
Bob
It's probably more functional on some style of boards than others.
Bob
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
The whole arm or arms forward thing never worked for me on a bodyboard, maybe the rocker or thickness or something, but it was always bog city for me. My wood projects were always too small to do much in this manner. I've had a blast with my handbords though especially when I could put one hand on top of the other...Superman indeed! Flying! Could get this feel with a mat and with a couple of dabbles with kneeboards as paipo and a bit with a 5'6" Doyle I had for a while.
I'm just in it for the pure goofy fun feeling though...
I'm just in it for the pure goofy fun feeling though...
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
Didn't I read in one of the interviews someone saying that so far as they know (growing up and riding that way) Superman style was just that, only for style, done because it was closest to what they had done bodysurfing but not for any functional reason?
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
Geoffrey,
I did a quick word search of the Hawaiian interviews I'd done and not found the quote you mentioned. It could be there and my searches didn't find it.
It's instructive to watch the old footage. The superman arm seems to come out when they are planning across flatter sections. One guy looked like he had his arm in a cast. Nice cutbacks which were way more acute than the longboards they were surfing with. The late finless drops (and drop behinds) are also interesting. They must have cleaned up the odd surfer doing these.
Regarding spinners - I saw some footage of Stan Osserman, kneeling and doing spinners to stay in the pocket. I don't believe it is still on the net. I'll ask Stan about it.
Over the years I've read interviews with surfers who reported watching some other guy's style over and over and copying it. There is nothing wrong with trying to develop a certain style, but whether it works for you, or works more generally is a different question.
Bob
I did a quick word search of the Hawaiian interviews I'd done and not found the quote you mentioned. It could be there and my searches didn't find it.
It's instructive to watch the old footage. The superman arm seems to come out when they are planning across flatter sections. One guy looked like he had his arm in a cast. Nice cutbacks which were way more acute than the longboards they were surfing with. The late finless drops (and drop behinds) are also interesting. They must have cleaned up the odd surfer doing these.
Regarding spinners - I saw some footage of Stan Osserman, kneeling and doing spinners to stay in the pocket. I don't believe it is still on the net. I'll ask Stan about it.
Over the years I've read interviews with surfers who reported watching some other guy's style over and over and copying it. There is nothing wrong with trying to develop a certain style, but whether it works for you, or works more generally is a different question.
Bob
- zensuni
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
In the video they seems to use their superman arm to keep their large rounded "plate" boards in the right balance/direction, when the boards tend to drift. Not sure the superman arm is very usefull with a sharpen board. Thanks for the link, that's a nice one, I like the end of the video when they take larger waves, late take off, these are brave men !
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
I use the occasional superman arm but I think it is mostly about moving your weight forward. From a steep section where I go from weight shifted back to control speed, to shifted forward -more flat to the wave -the riders in the video don't seem to be putting their forward hands in the water.
I do the occasional spinner (why not) but I have to drag my hand in the water to start. I tell myself it's because of the big butt on my board. Not my butt. The boards butt.
I do the occasional spinner (why not) but I have to drag my hand in the water to start. I tell myself it's because of the big butt on my board. Not my butt. The boards butt.
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
I, too, do the occasional superman, usually on a high speed line with my arm on the wave side. My then weakened left arm shoulder almost came out of socket onetime about 20 years ago on a left.... that was unsettling!
rodNDtube
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- zensuni
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
I took a few (weack) waves today, and my kids told me that I spontaneously flat crossed my arms on the board during the ride. When I paddled in for a left wave, I used my left arm to handle the board (the top right corner), and the right arm to paddle. The advantage of this is that the left arm doesn't drag in the water and doesn't slow down, usefull in weack waves that can barely carry you.
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
Keep in mind the style or technique you use when riding wood paipos isn't an all or nothing game. All the old timers may have preferred one style over others, but most used a combo of styles to suit the wave & conditions. That's how I ride too. I'll often be doing superman, no hands, boogie style, etc on the same ride as long as the waves are cooperating. The vid is misleading because the cam mounted at the nose gets in the way of putting my arms forward & riding way up on the nose, so I get limited using certain techniques when filming. I'd encourage you to learn and experiment w/ all styles of riding and not stick to one. Being able to use different techniques really opens up new dimensions with simple wood paipos, and that's why I got hooked on them again after giving them up for awhile. Another cool thing about paipo is that nobody is going to look at you funny or peer pressure you for riding in an "unorthodox" style on a paipo like they would if you were on a boogie or short board. The younger generations have no preconceptions or point of reference to judge you by.
The one arm stroke to get speed while already riding is an old technique. One of my paipo influenced friends I grew up with used that on a boogie. You'd see him stuffed deep in huge barrels madly stroking his inside arm into the wave face to try to get more speed. There's a guy who rides Bodypo here in SF who use that technique to leverage cut backs and off the lips. I found out later he was exposed to paipo riding in Hawai'i too. When the wave slows down or gets weak, try pushing the board forward and kick hard, just like you would when taking off. Pull the board back under you when you regain speed. Paipos can transition flat sections as well as any longboard or SUP doing that.
The one arm stroke to get speed while already riding is an old technique. One of my paipo influenced friends I grew up with used that on a boogie. You'd see him stuffed deep in huge barrels madly stroking his inside arm into the wave face to try to get more speed. There's a guy who rides Bodypo here in SF who use that technique to leverage cut backs and off the lips. I found out later he was exposed to paipo riding in Hawai'i too. When the wave slows down or gets weak, try pushing the board forward and kick hard, just like you would when taking off. Pull the board back under you when you regain speed. Paipos can transition flat sections as well as any longboard or SUP doing that.
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
Very similar to mat surfing tech for super early take off i.e. create very long rail line (adding body length to board/mat length) while increasing planning on leading surface (by having much less weight on board of mat).When the wave slows down or gets weak, try pushing the board forward and kick hard, just like you would when taking off. Pull the board back under you when you regain speed. Paipos can transition flat sections as well as any longboard or SUP doing that.
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
Do you think a longer board would help to catch weack waves ?OG-AZN wrote: Pull the board back under you when you regain speed. Paipos can transition flat sections as well as any longboard or SUP doing that.
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
One question; I'm considering building a plywood board. My actual board is made from a pine plank, I really like it, but I'm not sure it will be durable on the long run. After a few sessions it starts to be slightly "twisted", the shape is not as flat as it used to be, and I am not sure the glue will support the salted water on the long run. Plywood is made of one piece so I wont have to worry about the glue, but does the plywood keep its flat shape on the long run ?
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
Paipos depend on overall surface / planing area so it's not necessarily length, consider width too. Increasing either dimension can help catch weak waves, but there will be trades offs in control, ease of duck diving,etc if you go to extremes. The Hawaiian HPD boards are only 40" long, but 30" wide. They're fast and catch waves easily but not the best for fast hollow beach break or shore break due to the extreme width. Longer boards may catch waves easier, but might be harder to control without skegs. I would stick with a paipo that's of similar length as you use for your bodyboard, ranging from 39" - 44" in length. Don't make the board too narrow. Stay with appx bodyboard width to start. What kind of swim fins are you using? I think swim fins are even more important than board size when it comes to paddling out and catching or staying on waves.zensuni wrote:Do you think a longer board would help to catch weack waves ?OG-AZN wrote: Pull the board back under you when you regain speed. Paipos can transition flat sections as well as any longboard or SUP doing that.
The warping of your pine board is just a matter of not enough sealing with varnish, oil, etc. Same thing may happen to plywood if it's not sealed enough. Most of the time the board will take on a slight positive rocker - like a surfboard or boogie, which is actually a good thing. I use marine epoxy to seal my plywood boards. You can also try the more "environmentally friendly" bio epoxies like Entropy/Supersap. Your boards will last a long time with epoxy, but simple varnish or even paint will work too.
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
OG-AZN , thanks for the accurate reply. I still use low end bodyboard fins at the moment, I'm considering buying viper fins soon. I have palmate gloves, I'll give them a shot next time. Regarding the shape, I attach a picture of my boards, the right one is the one I use. It is 15x37 inch. I find it very good for hollow waves, it is easy to control, fast and not too big. It is actually quite close to boogie riding, except the stiffness and the buoyancy. The left one is some kind of prototype, It is a little longer and it has skegs, I haven't tested it yet. I plan to test it in clean conditions. I'll go for the epoxy varnish, as I'd like to protect these boards. Do you apply it directly, or do you need to use fabric, like fiberglass ? Also, does it affect the board buoyancy ?
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
What do you mean by "low end bodyboard fins"? I haven't noticed much difference in all the Churchill clones out there. Even though bodyboarders are using them to charge ridiculous waves, I've never found Churchill style fins the best for paipo riding or bodysurfing. When bodysurfing or riding a paipo , you start your kick stroke deeper under the water and in a different position than when you're on a bodyboard. I like Vipers, but you might have to experiment to find what works best for you. Your surfing will be much more enjoyable when you find the "right" fin.
I don't use fiberglass on my paipos. I just roller or brush on the epoxy. The addition of weight is minimal with plain epoxy, and the wood will still be allowed to flex. I apply 2 coats. No noticeable change in buoyancy either. Ply boards of reasonable size are neutrally buoyant, likely less buoyant than your pine boards, but that makes them easier to duck dive. It's hard to tell from your pics that your board is only 37" x 15". That seems a bit short and narrow. My narrowest board is about 17" at the tail. Narrow & short boards are good for fast close out shorebreak where the waves are easy to catch. I suggest going a bit wider and longer for a board that can catch and get through slow weak waves. Adding planing area will make it easier to catch the small or not quite breaking waves and the extra length will allow you to move forward and get your legs out of the water for glide and speed.
I don't use fiberglass on my paipos. I just roller or brush on the epoxy. The addition of weight is minimal with plain epoxy, and the wood will still be allowed to flex. I apply 2 coats. No noticeable change in buoyancy either. Ply boards of reasonable size are neutrally buoyant, likely less buoyant than your pine boards, but that makes them easier to duck dive. It's hard to tell from your pics that your board is only 37" x 15". That seems a bit short and narrow. My narrowest board is about 17" at the tail. Narrow & short boards are good for fast close out shorebreak where the waves are easy to catch. I suggest going a bit wider and longer for a board that can catch and get through slow weak waves. Adding planing area will make it easier to catch the small or not quite breaking waves and the extra length will allow you to move forward and get your legs out of the water for glide and speed.
- zensuni
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
I use these swim fins: http://www.decathlon.fr/palme-bodyboard ... 03795.html They have been ok for bodyboarding, but I would like to gain more propulsion. I saw vipers at the shop recently, they seem longer so I guess it would help. Regarding my board size, I built it short as I am 65", but that's right it may be too small. Indeed the take off is very easy in hollow shore breaks, but I'd like to be able to catch waves a little sooner. I think I'll go for a plywood board with epoxy, I'll also apply epoxy on my existing boards. I was wondering something about plywood boards, after you cut into the outline, do you shave it a little (the rails, the nose) or do you just sand it down ? The shaving process was quite laborious with my pine boards. Regarding the tickness, is 0,40" ok ?
- rodndtube
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?
Try on the Vipers before buying unless you have narrow feet. Actually, try the Vipers fit with your usual fins of. If the fins are tight on the sides it may cause cramping in short order.
Also note there two types of Vipers, new formulation in solid colors and old formulation with a splash color.
Yellow Vipers have stiff blades in 5 inch and 7 inch blade lengths. Orange is a more flexi blade of 5 inch length.
I used the yellow and the orange 5 inch versions for several years in warm to cool waters (with up to 2mm sox). I can not fit my feet into the new solid color Vipers as the space between the foot strap and upper lip of the foot pocket is too small.
For several reasons I am now a DaFins convert.
Also note there two types of Vipers, new formulation in solid colors and old formulation with a splash color.
Yellow Vipers have stiff blades in 5 inch and 7 inch blade lengths. Orange is a more flexi blade of 5 inch length.
I used the yellow and the orange 5 inch versions for several years in warm to cool waters (with up to 2mm sox). I can not fit my feet into the new solid color Vipers as the space between the foot strap and upper lip of the foot pocket is too small.
For several reasons I am now a DaFins convert.
rodNDtube
"Prone to ride"
I love my papa li`ili`i
"The sea doth wash away all human ills."
-- Euripides.
"Prone to ride"
I love my papa li`ili`i
"The sea doth wash away all human ills."
-- Euripides.
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