Which paipo for hollow waves ?

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by SJB » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:44 pm

Geoffrey's observation gives a proud Father an opportunity to drop in my Son's Band song "Dreamers" that Shaun Tomson used to close out his movie "Bustin Down the Door".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIHzibBC5p0

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by zensuni » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:50 pm

If I wanted to look cool I would have bought a surf board :)
Riding prone is rarely considered as something cool as far as I know, I guess it is an animal thing in some people mind, they consider that standing up is quite a proud posture to dominate the ocean or something like that.
I consider "cool" those people that you call "watermen", guys who can escape a wave, body surf to come back if they lose their board, etc...
When I am in the water I don't care too much about looking good, I only care about the next wave coming toward me.
Being so much focus on the water is like little vacations for my brain, I forget all the other issues. I don't feel it that much in other sports, that's probably why I can wake up at 4am and drive an hour to practice a sport I am not even good at.
That's also very hard to explain to my wife, she knows I m not such a great bodyboarder so she doesn't get the point to make it even harder using a wooden board instead of a boogie board. But she admitted that the latest wooden board I built was quite decorative, which is something at least :).

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by Nels » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:55 pm

That's a good angle...tell the wife it's Art, not Sport...

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by bgreen » Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:44 am

Zensuni,

I stayed at La Porge and the coast seemed to face a somewhat different direction and certainly had different waves to Lacanau which I visited a couple of times. Regarding travel, a time honoured tradition is the surf trip. It's a haul to the area around Biarritz but worth doing now and then to experience different waves and conditions.

With the exception of Hawaii & California, as far as I know most people who ride paipo don't have other paipo riders to surf with, or very few, so it is a solo pursuit. There are probably pockets of alaia riders around the place.

"
zensuni wrote:That's also very hard to explain to my wife, she knows I m not such a great bodyboarder so she doesn't get the point to make it even harder using a wooden board instead of a boogie board.
.

There is a history of prone surfing in Europe that is little documented. See http://home.brisnet.com.au/~bgreen/Europe/index2.shtml

Someone on this web-site quoted the saying - the best surfer in the water is the one having the most fun. This is a rough recollection, but surfing is about having fun in the ocean.

Bob

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by krusher74 » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:16 pm

You have Ex world bodyboard champion Bodyboard Pierre Louis (PLC) as inspiration 8-)

Here are two videos, one of him on a wood finless paipo. and the second showing his bodyboard skills at bunkers (hoggegor)

https://vimeo.com/20185680

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZVAzwt8q8M

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by zensuni » Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:48 pm

bgreen wrote: There is a history of prone surfing in Europe that is little documented. See http://home.brisnet.com.au/~bgreen/Europe/index2.shtml
Bob, that's an interresting link. I asked a few people about the planky, but nobody seems to recall it. Only a french guy on a surf forum told me that he used it when he was a kid in the late 60's and stopped after being hurt in a shorebreack. Also he told me these boards were mainly considered as beach toys, like flat disk skimboards of your url (soucoupe). Your url also mentions something called "glissvag" which is a contraction of "glisse vague" (wave slip), it is described as an inflatable PVC "sea luge", which is an interesting comparison.

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by zensuni » Fri Mar 04, 2016 5:54 pm

krusher74 wrote:You have Ex world bodyboard champion Bodyboard Pierre Louis (PLC) as inspiration 8-)

Here are two videos, one of him on a wood finless paipo. and the second showing his bodyboard skills at bunkers (hoggegor)

https://vimeo.com/20185680

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZVAzwt8q8M
Krusher74, yes I watched this video already, which is very impressive by the way :D
But he seems to ride this plywood board with a boogie board style, he even goes for boogie tricks !
This is a great performance, but I don't think this is what wood boards are made for.
However, that's cool to see a pro bodyboarder playing around with a paipo.

I see that you live in uk, how are the ways over there ? Are they paipo compatible ? :D

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by Uncle Grumpy » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:06 pm

Paipo surfer in repose,
Nose on the nose,
No grunting he-man pose.
See how fast he goes!
What is it he knows?

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by OG-AZN » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:26 am

zensuni wrote: ..This is a great performance, but I don't think this is what wood boards are made for.
Nonsense!! The only rule for riding a wood paipo "correctly" is to ride it whatever way feels the most fun to you. I'm old enough to remember seeing many of the old skool paipo riders in Hawai'i, and those folks rode "any 'kine style". Every conceivable way prone, on knees and even stand up. Tricks, speed, barrels, cruising; it's all good.

What's the best wood paipo for hollow waves? Since you're new to paipo, I think your best bet is the tombstone shape or slightly modified tombstone with the wide point a little behind the middle of the board. That shape is fast & easily controllabe in the barrel, even without fins (skegs). Look at the shape ridden by PLC in the vid, the boards made by Wegner, or even the bamboo-cork one shaped by Dave of Californiasurfcraft for ideas. If you're using plywood or heavy solid wood, I'd advise against a leash for safety reasons, and it will make you a better surfer in the long run. If the weight of the board is bothering you, try downsizing the board to 3/4 or 1/2 size. You'll find the smaller board easier to control in the closeouts too.

I'm surprised you say you're having difficulty making it to the outside with a paipo. Paipos duck dive better than any other craft and you expend less energy than swimming out without a board. What kind of swim fins are you using? You might need more "horsepower" in that area. On that note, practice using your swim fins and legs for control in place of skegs and to help you "scoop" into steep hollow waves. Back in the early days of bodyboarding, a lot of riders retained the paipo style of riding way up on the nose, trying to keep their legs out of the water. That's good for speed, but also leads to lots of skipping, bouncing and sliding out as those old vids show. Over time, riders learning to dig their legs and swim fins into the wave when necessary has allowed the new generations to ride waves and conditions thought impossible before. Look at the bodyboard vids of guys riding Chopes, Fronton, etc, etc to see what I mean. These techniques work well in less critical hollow beach break for paipos too.

I've been told that my current home break, Ocean Beach, SF is very similar to the waves in your region. Your pic of the SUP guy paddling out looks exactly like OB in fall & winter. Here's my old VGA Gopro vid of riding finless, leashless plywood paipos at OB and in Hawai'i, both bodyboard and old paipo style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6h-ZYh ... CQ&index=5

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by soulglider » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:39 pm

Well said Trevor!
deathbedpaipo.blogspot.com

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by bgreen » Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:39 am

Zensuni,

Rod has an article on the paipo articles page where Joel de Rosnay identified as a bellyboard rider before riding a stand-up board. A friend in Reunion is translating an interview with Jacky Rott, so we may learn some more about these boards.

Trevor makes the point that riding one of these boards is an individual experience. There may be techniques that work for one person but not another and a person's prior background influences how they surf - some were kneeboarders, some bodyboarders or bodysurfers. I rode a standup board and have never tried a spinner which gets back to my point about just having fun.

Trevor also made the point about being able to get out the back. Perhaps you're a champion swimmer but there is an argument for becoming competent in the shorebreak before you head out the back. On the other hand, the waves out the back may be easier to ride than the shorebreak. Trial and error, and know your limitations.

Bob

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by krusher74 » Sun Mar 06, 2016 5:30 pm

zensuni wrote:
krusher74 wrote:You have Ex world bodyboard champion Bodyboard Pierre Louis (PLC) as inspiration 8-)

Here are two videos, one of him on a wood finless paipo. and the second showing his bodyboard skills at bunkers (hoggegor)

https://vimeo.com/20185680

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZVAzwt8q8M
Krusher74, yes I watched this video already, which is very impressive by the way :D
But he seems to ride this plywood board with a boogie board style, he even goes for boogie tricks !
This is a great performance, but I don't think this is what wood boards are made for.
However, that's cool to see a pro bodyboarder playing around with a paipo.

I see that you live in uk, how are the ways over there ? Are they paipo compatible ? :D
We have every sort of wave in wales, Beach breaks like your area, many reefs breaks and a few points, Any wave can be paipoed , just less powerful ones may require more skill to traverse/keep going.

I have a 20 year background in bodyboarding and have transferred that style to my paipo design and riding. feel that style is most efficient for speed and manoeuvrability. I Have found that some boards that ave a less and optimum design. (to long to narrow, wrong curve) then you have to work much harder and employ "funky" style to make the function.

This "wood paipo style" you speak of i think is a function of trying to ride a less than optimum design. But any wave riding is fun and do enjoy any board and trying to work out how to ride a wave on it.

If I was surfing the beach breaks of hossegor I would start with a plywood board shaped like these http://mypaipoboards.org/pics/2009_Redw ... Alaias.jpg

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by zensuni » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:12 am

I get your point, one rides the way he wants to, tricks, no tricks, whatever, no rules. I agree, yet, my opinion as a video watcher is that I find the 60's "superman" style on a wooden board more pleasant to watch ( like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBmAqQ_64u0 ), more aesthetic. I know that the boogie board tricks are a logic evolution, it is just not my cup of tea.

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by bgreen » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:55 am

Here is more superman style - https://vimeo.com/9742493

It's probably more functional on some style of boards than others.

Bob

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by Nels » Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:44 pm

The whole arm or arms forward thing never worked for me on a bodyboard, maybe the rocker or thickness or something, but it was always bog city for me. My wood projects were always too small to do much in this manner. I've had a blast with my handbords though especially when I could put one hand on top of the other...Superman indeed! Flying! Could get this feel with a mat and with a couple of dabbles with kneeboards as paipo and a bit with a 5'6" Doyle I had for a while.

I'm just in it for the pure goofy fun feeling though...

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:23 pm

Didn't I read in one of the interviews someone saying that so far as they know (growing up and riding that way) Superman style was just that, only for style, done because it was closest to what they had done bodysurfing but not for any functional reason?

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by bgreen » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:57 pm

Geoffrey,
I did a quick word search of the Hawaiian interviews I'd done and not found the quote you mentioned. It could be there and my searches didn't find it.

It's instructive to watch the old footage. The superman arm seems to come out when they are planning across flatter sections. One guy looked like he had his arm in a cast. Nice cutbacks which were way more acute than the longboards they were surfing with. The late finless drops (and drop behinds) are also interesting. They must have cleaned up the odd surfer doing these.

Regarding spinners - I saw some footage of Stan Osserman, kneeling and doing spinners to stay in the pocket. I don't believe it is still on the net. I'll ask Stan about it.

Over the years I've read interviews with surfers who reported watching some other guy's style over and over and copying it. There is nothing wrong with trying to develop a certain style, but whether it works for you, or works more generally is a different question.

Bob

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by zensuni » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:08 pm

In the video they seems to use their superman arm to keep their large rounded "plate" boards in the right balance/direction, when the boards tend to drift. Not sure the superman arm is very usefull with a sharpen board. Thanks for the link, that's a nice one, I like the end of the video when they take larger waves, late take off, these are brave men !

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by kage » Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:38 pm

I use the occasional superman arm but I think it is mostly about moving your weight forward. From a steep section where I go from weight shifted back to control speed, to shifted forward -more flat to the wave -the riders in the video don't seem to be putting their forward hands in the water.
I do the occasional spinner (why not) but I have to drag my hand in the water to start. I tell myself it's because of the big butt on my board. Not my butt. The boards butt.

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by rodndtube » Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:30 pm

I, too, do the occasional superman, usually on a high speed line with my arm on the wave side. My then weakened left arm shoulder almost came out of socket onetime about 20 years ago on a left.... that was unsettling!
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