Which paipo for hollow waves ?

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
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zensuni
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by zensuni » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:29 am

Bob,
The ply was 0.20 inch tick.
I shaped another plywood board using a ticker plank (0.40 inch), it didn't broke, but the flex is not great. By gluing 2 thin planks together I thought I could get more flex than using a single tick plank, but I realize that it probably doesn't work like that. Maybe I could glue 2 planks of different size, so the most part of the board is ticker than the nose ? Ideally I'd like to be able to pull the nose in critical situations where I feel I am about to nose dive. It is not only about getting flex, it is also that bending the nose using steam is much easier with a thin plank.
Regarding using the edge as a rail by pressing on the inside edge, I'm working on it, it is not as easy as I thought :)

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by bgreen » Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:18 pm

Zensuni,

The original HPD boards had a piece of wood glued to the nose, which was then used to add some nose lift. Mr Mike posted a how to, perhaps on the old forum. There is also this thread - http://mypaipoboards.org/forum3/viewtop ... 5&start=10
I have a mate who is into bending wood. I can ask him.

There is also the technique of sliding back a bit when it gets steeper. Surfing for most of us, is something that takes a life time to learn the subtleties.

I tried a real flexy Wegener board once. Too much flex for my liking.

Bob

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by krusher74 » Sun May 01, 2016 8:08 am

zensuni wrote:Bob, by longboard waves I mean waves that are not too hollow. I m not a great paddler and I am looking for anything that could help to catch waves. That said, of course I won't take the same waves that a SUP or a longboard.
You need As many of the following 3 things a you can get to catch wave easier and with the longboarders

1, Greater board volume (float)

2, Flatter rocker/board nose belly (belly help the board cut through the water a it try to get to planning speed)

3, Paddling skill. Efficient paddling, efficient balance point and pressure on the board, and positioning to harness the power of the wave to your advantage.

You might find it easier to pick up the basic skills faster on a floaty bodyboard.

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by nomastomas » Sun May 01, 2016 10:16 am

Krusher's points are valid and lead directly down the path of sandwich-construction in lieu of (ply)wood construction. IMO, the "classic" wood paipo, for all it's "pure form" cache (and ultra-low cost), is difficult to ride and has a limited performance range. I've never ridden one, but have observed them being ridden in the line-up and in videos. I'm always left with the same question: "why?" OK, if I was on a deserted island which had great surf, and a piece of plywood washed up on the beach, you can bet I would be using my clamshell eating utensil to shape it into a surf-able object. But, if on the next day a TBG4 or one of Krusher's finless SDFs or even one of Austin's shapes washed up on the beach, guess which board I would be riding?
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by Uncle Grumpy » Sun May 01, 2016 11:09 am

nomastomas wrote:. IMO, the "classic" wood paipo, for all it's "pure form" cache (and ultra-low cost), is difficult to ride and has a limited performance range. I've never ridden one
Difficult? How so? More challenging? Limited performance range? What does that mean? No shralping?

Aside from price, there's a big difference between wooden and plywood paipos. But admittedly having never tried either you couldn't know that.

Dad used to say: "Don't knock it until you've tried it."
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by nomastomas » Sun May 01, 2016 12:09 pm

Kicking your ass off while pushing an piece of wood around the lineup, and then when you finally do catch a wave, trimming in a straight line, hoping you don't slide down the face or spin out just isn't what I'd call fun. But, then that's just me...Obviously, there are others, like Grumpy, who would strongly disagree. For them it would seem, riding wooden paipos is the epitome of the surfing experience. That's cool...I just don't share that view.

"BIG difference between wood and plywood", really? Big difference? There's a big difference between chambered wood or hollow wood construction, and plywood, yes. But "BIG" difference between 3/4 inch marine-ply and 3/4 inch pine...just doesn't pass the giggle test. But then, what do I know?

"Don't knock it until you've tried it" Personally, I don't need to step in front of a truck to "know" its not a good idea...but then that's just me. Life would be pretty painful if we were forced to experientially test out all of our hypotheses. That's the value of observation and intuition. But then again, I could be wrong...
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by bgreen » Sun May 01, 2016 8:38 pm

Nomas,

A board made of paulownia vs pine would be quite different. Similarly, equal thickness paulownia and ply would have different qualities (flex and float). A wood board can vary from a simple rectangle with rounded corners to an Akisada board with wings and complex curves. Sean Ross was riding Pipeline on a wood HPD.

I've ridden solid Lennox Head on a finless homemade paipo and you can have as much fun on one as any other board. There is the added advantage of duckdiving ability. You can also pick up waves by being in the right spot or further inside.

There is a simplicity that makes these boards great fun. Foam/fibreglass boards have advantages but the story is a bit more complex than it may appear.

Bob

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by nomastomas » Sun May 01, 2016 10:11 pm

BOB...We have a different view of what is "fun". I'm not sure I would have fun at Pipeline on any type of surfcraft, but definitely not on a piece of wood, regardless of how many wings, compound curves, flexiness, density or whatever. I suspect Zensumi's issues have more to do with his choice of prone craft. Krusher put it well, "You might find it easier to pick up the basic skills faster on a floaty bodyboard." But, of course that would take all the fun out of it...right?
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by bgreen » Sun May 01, 2016 10:42 pm

Hello Nomas,

Riding Pipeline was more an example of the capacity of wood boards to hold an edge in critical waves. While doing some chores, I was thinking about how the lines might seem straight on wood boards but they may be longer curves and the fun is seeing how fast you can go.

I'm currently riding a 5 fin bonzer but at the back of my mind is the yearning for a foam finless board. Wood will feature in the mix again at some stage. I have a few 'blanks' under the house.

Learning on a wood board you'd gain different skills, though, you'd probably get more waves to start of with on a bodyboard. For me, it comes down to what waves you want to surf, how you want to surf them and what you want to experience.

Bob

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by nomastomas » Sun May 01, 2016 11:04 pm

I agree with your last statement, but for me a true paipo just doesn't fit into the picture. Different stokes...as the saying goes. A balsa or paulonia chambered TBG4 is one my "yearnings". Just can't find a good source for the wood, "good" meaning cheap. And, yes the finless foam and glass variant still haunts me as well. I'm in the process of building a 10-6 glider, "edge-bottom" board a la GG. And as I was doing research, I recalled Ekstrom's prone board. Looks like an edge bottom to me.
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by bgreen » Mon May 02, 2016 1:32 am

Nomas,

I'll be interested to see what your edge board looks like. I'll have to check out your finless design again.

Bob

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by zensuni » Mon May 02, 2016 4:06 am

Hi there
krusher74 wrote: You might find it easier to pick up the basic skills faster on a floaty bodyboard.
I agree, it is way easier to learn on a body board, which I did (I can take reasonable waves correctly).
The reasons why I switched to wooden boards are:
- I am a terrible duck diver, plywood boards are great for that
- shaping these pieces of plywood is some kind of hobby to my curious brain, I like building them as much as I like testing them.
- I know I will never be the greatest rider of the world, I am not gonna perform insane tricks, so I don't really seek for pure performance, just speed and fun.
- every successful, well done ride on a plywood plank still amazes me, just the fact that "it worked". And sometimes it works great.
- it is very rewarding to get better, on a bodyboard it is easy to ride a wave, on a wooden board there is a learning curve.

Regarding the "longboard waves", I have to say that I got better in catching waves after several sessions, so now catching waves is no longer a big problem.
Recently, the conditions at my local spot have been smaller, mainly onshore wind, which means no tubes, and I could really appreciate the waves catching ability of my HPD like plywood board.
I still need to work on using rails as fins, but I'm getting better on that. I glued cork pads on the deck of the board, so it floats a little better than just a piece of plywood.
I let down my pine wood boards attempts, as I find them too dangerous, too heavy, I don't want my board to an hazard in the water. Plywood is a good compromise, light and strong.
I feel like the point is not to float, it is to plan, like water ski, so a thin surface works fine.
Regarding riding hollow waves, I'll make a dedicated plywood board, more narrow I guess, I think my HPD like board wouldn't be great in juicy tubes, too wide.
At the moment I don't consider to switch to a fiberglass foam board, maybe I'll build one for my kids, and to satisfy my curiosity about the shaping process.

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by soulglider » Mon May 02, 2016 8:34 am

whatever happened to learning to surf? there aint no easy answers out there.

what if you pretended that there isnt an internet to find out anything about these prone crafts. what would you do? would you try everything/anything wood, foam, rubber, inflatoes, or...? or would you give up? not everyone needs to surf or should surf. you could be one of those that makes boards and just rides around town with them and get as much as a thrill, i suspect. But, if you cant have fun learning and going through the lumps and bumps, maybe you should open up a spot in the lineup and try some other water, air or land sport.

and why, once again, has a thread turned into a swaylocks kooks argument thread? and guess who's there to lead it into a goofy argument about whats best without even trying it? LOL

look, if i was out to make a living selling something, i too would go around telling everyone why my something was better blah blah blah. but, really? better? lmao
deathbedpaipo.blogspot.com

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by nomastomas » Mon May 02, 2016 8:52 am

Welcome back SG. I was beginning to feel neglected due to your lack of abuse and negativity. Somehow I just knew that you wouldn't be able to resist putting your ugly slant on this lively discussion. BTW, How are those therapy sessions going? Oh, the therapist doesn't know what he's talking about you say? What? You called him a kook and insulted his integrity? Bravo SG! Who needs answers when they already have all of them, am I right?
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by nomastomas » Mon May 02, 2016 8:56 am

Now, where was I...oh yeah, " I like building them as much as I like testing them" -Zensuni I regret to inform you Z that you have contracted a chronic disease. Fortunately, there is a support group...
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by Uncle Grumpy » Mon May 02, 2016 10:04 am

nomastomas wrote:Welcome back SG. I was beginning to feel neglected due to your lack of abuse and negativity.
Image
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Nose on the nose,
No grunting he-man pose.
See how fast he goes!
What is it he knows?

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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by nomastomas » Mon May 02, 2016 10:27 am

Et tu grumpy?
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by rodndtube » Mon May 02, 2016 11:14 am

Lots of old age grumpiness in the Southern California area? Maybe the end of the winter season? Beginning of on-shore winds season? The season of June Gloom is approaching? Life is too short...

Please try to keep the dialogue civilized, resist that urge to attack your fellow aficionado, discuss what works for you and why, take a long walk or paddle, love your fellow bodyboarder/paipo rider/belly slider/prone kipapa-style wave person.
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by rodndtube » Mon May 02, 2016 11:41 am

This doesn't look like a customary scoop nose board by The Original Surfboard Company (just appears to have much less rocker to me in the video). These boards are also fairly narrow (at least for me @ <19"). No fins (skegs). The best waves and rides I have seen on video for this style of board.
https://youtu.be/WYftssG9ucs

Makes me wonder why I bother so much with those ding prone poly foam/glass boards!

In about a month I will be taking a surf trip... my companions will both be riding their own DIY creations and I will be on my ultra finned bonzer paipo. I believe both their boards will be finned although some of their creations are finless and one guy's first love is a surf mat (PhillyViking). Not sure how the current iterations of their continuing design experiments will be constructed. and the boards' dimensions, but they will be some combinations of wood veneers, cork and ?? and will include FCS fin plugs. The other I believe will be a combination of ply & polyethylene (AtlantaSurfer). And also with fin plugs. But I might be waaay off, lol. Atlanta usually brings two of his creations which really saved the day this past March when my board did not arrive with me (about 36 hrs later it arrived). Atlanta loaned me the smaller of his two boards--saved my day--had some fun. But I was oh-so-happy when my board arrived (along with some more serious waves).
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Re: Which paipo for hollow waves ?

Unread post by zensuni » Mon May 02, 2016 1:50 pm

rodndtube wrote:This doesn't look like a customary scoop nose board by The Original Surfboard Company (just appears to have much less rocker to me in the video). These boards are also fairly narrow (at least for me @ <19"). No fins (skegs). The best waves and rides I have seen on video for this style of board.
https://youtu.be/WYftssG9ucs

Makes me wonder why I bother so much with those ding prone poly foam/glass boards!
That's a great example of hollow waves bellyboarding ! According to their website the board is very narrow indeed, 11,8".

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