Design Advice

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Design Advice

Unread postby Atlantasurfer » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:32 am

I am getting ready to create a new board, and I want to get some opinions/advice.

Last spring I made Black Betty, as seen in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=681

I love this board. It works well in chest high and smaller waves. But, it consistently pearls in bigger waves. I want to make a version that keeps some design elements that I enjoy ( I love how floaty it is, and I love having my feet and legs completely out of the water when riding) but can do well with waves that have more size and energy.

Without a doubt, one of the problems is the lack of rocker. I steamed the plywood and used a homemade jig, but I did something wrong. After letting it dry and hitting it with the spar urethane, it gradually relaxed back to being flat as a pancake.

So, can this shape/design work in bigger waves with just the addition of rocker (if so how much), or does it also need a reduction in width and length?
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Re: Design Advice

Unread postby Atlantasurfer » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:37 am

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=681

I just realized that I put this in "Your Wave" when it should have gone into the paipo building thread. Sorry.
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Re: Design Advice

Unread postby rodndtube » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:38 pm

My first comment is regarding "rocker," i.e., the curvature along the length board's bottom side. I understand rocker as being of roughly three types: through-board rocker, nose rocker and tail rocker. Related to this bottom curve is what might be "nose kick" or "tail kick," but rather than being the rocker in the forward third or aft third of the board, the "kick" might focus on the 6 inches or so from either end. As in most things surf design everything is a compromise. Too much rocker and you bog down; and, with no rocker it is easier to pearl dive the board and it is more difficult to turn, catch a wave, and dodge the surface chop. Then there is the in-between world of board flex where some of these issues can be mitigated as one flexes the rocker or kick of the board.

Atlanta, to generalize, you have basically been working in the realm of 6 ft., 5 ft. and 4 ft. board lengths of wood and a combination of wood and rubber/plastic (polyethylene?). The location of your planning surface on each of these board lengths may vary some and your style of riding may somewhat dictate where your preferred planning surface resides (forward, middle, aft) for each of these board lengths. Where you ride on the board usually influences the preferred rocker profile.

Board lengths of 4 to 6 ft do not necessarily dictate where your legs and feet will be located relative to the water although if you are transitioning from a 6 ft. to a 4 ft. board you will definitely need to think about when you want your legs and feet up and out of the water, at least not dragging and slowing you down (except when you are trying to not out race the tube!). In many instances your legs, feet and swim fins can effectively extend the length of your planning surface and harness more of the wave's energy (albeit, my DaFins are not quite as effective as were my Vipers in this regard due to the downward curvature of the fin blades).
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Re: Design Advice

Unread postby jbw4600 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:59 pm

Hi, If you want make a board like your board, but with rocker, go to Home Depot or somewhere else and buy some 1/8" plywood and laminate it up with the rocker. I used 3 layers for one board and 4 for another. I made a mold out of EPS. But you could use a series of strips of wood of different thinknesses or pretty much anything to create the the nose and tail rocker you want. I posted one of them here about 4 months ago. https://mypaipoboards.org/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=702 Here is the Home depot wood: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Utility-Panel-Common-1-8-In-x-4-Ft-x-8-Ft-Actual-0-106-in-x-48-in-x-96-in-833096/100535208?MERCH=REC-_-SearchPLPHorizontal1_rr-_-NA-_-100535208-_-N
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Re: Design Advice

Unread postby bgreen » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:23 pm

I would say a wood board doesn't need a lot of rocker. On the other hand, a foam board needs it, unless you are talking a no glass piece of foam. I have a foam board, which as soon as it hits a hollow section, nose dives. It is a very low rocker board. A wood board can flex more, especially if not too thick.

Where your legs are when surfing will be a product of both board length & thickness. The desirability of legs being in the water will also depend on whether you are surfing finned/finless, how you surf and type of wave.

If the length is 55" this should be ok in bigger waves. I found you need some volume to get into bigger, steeper waves, the caveat being if you good leg strength this may compensate for reduced volume. For every "rule" there is an exception, e.g the HPD which is only 40" long but ridden in large waves. A longer/shorter board will simply affect what sort of lines you draw and therefore whether you are going to be more in the pocket or not.
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Re: Design Advice

Unread postby rodndtube » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:21 pm

To be fair, Tim is thinking about a wave breaking in the 6 to 10 ft. range that pops up rather suddenly and is steep breaking with a sometimes near vertical to vertical drop. The boards he references were approximately 5 ft. and 6 ft. long with something like 3/8 to a 1/2 inch of black polyethylene on top. The boards flex but it seems like the end are both on the heavy side. I borrowed the smaller one one year ago March when my board arrived 36 hrs after we did and he had two boards with him. I really struggled on the steeper take offs with the flat bottom and the nose seeming to want to flex into the pearl dive position. Taking off laterally, or at an angle, on the wave was almost always not an option.
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Re: Design Advice

Unread postby bgreen » Mon May 01, 2017 8:10 am

Rod,

What do you reckon made the nose flex "into the pearl dive position". I've had flattish bottom boards that didn't pearl.

Bob
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Re: Design Advice

Unread postby rodndtube » Mon May 01, 2017 8:16 am

bgreen wrote:Rod,

What do you reckon made the nose flex "into the pearl dive position". I've had flattish bottom boards that didn't pearl.

Bob


Liberal use of the term "flex" in this instance. The board was very nose heavy and with a flat bottom it just wanted to eat some reef. There was some through-board flex but it sure seemed to want to do a flexing pearl dive. The take off is very steep. No way to bend the nose upward. I had to resort to taking the softer waves or more out on the shoulder until my board was delivered from the airline the next day.
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