TBG5

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.

Re: TBG5

Unread postby flojo » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:34 am

that is a beautiful board-
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Re: TBG5

Unread postby bgreen » Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:14 am

Nomas,

I posted my experiments with Larry's design. The first board was more like his standard board. My next board was a thinner version. No problems with nose diving and it is the fastest board I've ever ridden. It's suited to tube riding but a great board nonetheless.

The guy who shapes my boards is moving more to a standard surfboard type foil. I have a recent board I really like, that I want to go a bit thicker on, but not too much.

I look forward to seeing your further refinements, especially finless.
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Re: TBG5

Unread postby nomastomas » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:19 pm

Every time I consider removing the fins on the G5, this happens: I take off late and deep, actually waay to late and waaay too steep. Getting pitched is inevitable, but...I grab the beach-side rail and with arms extended, falling into the pit, I use the G5 as a hand-plane, and leveraging the wave side rail and fins, I hook into the face and I'm off to the races.
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Re: TBG5

Unread postby nomastomas » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:44 pm

Well, this Winter was very hit-and-miss (mostly miss) surf wise at my local breaks. Catastrophic fires and floods, didn't help, either. With only a couple days of solid OH waves, I never got a chance to to tune in the fin setup on the G5. Once again I was plagued with the skipping stone phenomenon. It may be that the wide-point-behind-center design of the G5, while generating tremendous speed, generates just too much lift in larger waves. I think that, much like big wave surfboards, there is a need to reduce lift by narrowing the plan shape and reducing the volume in the rear half of the board. This would allow the tail to sink a little more, creating just enough drag to keep the board in contact with the water. I wonder if anyone else has encountered the skipping-stone and how you deal with it?
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Re: TBG5

Unread postby rodndtube » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:40 pm

Over the years I thought about a similar challenge in dealing with skipping stone on larger, fast waves, especially susceptible when there is just a small amount of cross shop on the surface. It was never addressed front on, no pun intended, but what I had wanted to experiment with was adding a fair amount of "V" in the nose. In the end, my decision was to deal with one of my main concerns, my ribs, by buying a pair of lacrosse rib protectors, rather than a highly specialized board for one spot.
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Re: TBG5

Unread postby nomastomas » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:19 pm

For me, its the reduction in control that accompanies the skipping that is bothersome. In small waves (under 6ft face), lift helps to keep the board loose, by keeping it close to the air-water interface. Just skimming on, but still in contact with the surface is ideal. Less shape drag for max speed, but still enough control surfaces (bottom, rails, fins, etc) in contact with the water to maintain smooth directional control. Applying body weight to surfaces or changing attack angle in the case of fins, produces enough drag to alter course. So, my thinking is to reduce lift by eliminating bottom concave, reducing the overall planing area and reducing buoyancy by reducing the volume. Essentially, becoming more "displacement" hull than "planing" hull, and using different fin shape/sizes to fine-tune the ride. The "Manta" was a tri-hull, displacement design, but it shared the same wide-point back outline and foil, and suffered the same excessive lift problem in larger waves.

That being said, there is a certain thrill that comes from traveling at the speed where you occasionally feel almost the total absence of drag.
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Re: TBG5

Unread postby bgreen » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:33 pm

The old Hawaiian footage shows the surfers skipping along.

Sometimes it is fun, but it can get dangerous. Rod mentioned his ribs, My chin hit the deck one day and my teeth went through my lip.

There are probably ways to reduce it, but if you are going at speed and there is some chop, I think it is hard to avoid. Lower volume, less surface area might be one way to go. But then you won't have a TBG5.
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Re: TBG5

Unread postby nomastomas » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:29 pm

TBXL!!!! Yes, and those "old Hawaiians" are probably riding the old style, wide-point behind center "guitar pick" shapes. Given that Winter has pretty much passed, I'll probably have another 9 months or so to come up with a testable design and a new name...

BTW, if you hold your board by the rails with hands apart, chances are that your elbows and forearms are off the deck, or at least not under your chest. Holding the board with both hands together on the nose with elbows/forearms on the deck (a la bodyboard) helps to protect upper body from the deck.
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Re: TBG5

Unread postby Nels » Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:53 pm

Speaking of "old Hawaiians" and old school paipoboarding and bellyboarding, a lot of guys rode with their heads forward of the nose of their boards and the arm nearest the wave outstretched. Not so good for pearling probably but would give some protection to the old chinbone. Also moved the weight forward for ultimately less friction. I have a couple of magazines with photos...a Surfer from maybe 1971 and the 1972 World Contest program I think had one (relying on memory on that one). I also saw that in Honolulu back in the early 70's.

With my two (finless) wood paipos I would get the bounce but countered that with hanging my lower half off the near-wave tail corner. Felt okay, but intellectually seems like trying to go two cosmic directions at once. I'm trying to cut down on that action...

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Re: TBG5

Unread postby bgreen » Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:06 am

Nels,

I think the forward riding position was suited to short boards. In an interview (Barry Hutchins I think) it's referred to as a cantilever position.

On a longer board, weighting the tail could lead to nose slapping. An optimal length board, would allow what you suggested, dragging the body but also having some weight forward. The other option is reducing the board area in the wave through more on rail surfing.

Here's hoping there isn't a need to engage in too much chop surfing. It's one of those things worth experimenting with. Easier said than done, because when you're skipping, you are typically hanging for the ride.

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