Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
flojo
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#11

Unread post by flojo »

52” bodyboard on Toobs website
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#12

Unread post by rodndtube »

Very different from the typical bodyboard (in my eyes, recognizing cognitive self-unawareness which is especially acute when looking at surf mats!). The lines are so straight, no typical crescent tail. How wide is the board and are the rails square or 60/40, 40/60?
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#13

Unread post by asier esnal »

I do not know if they are too big to use as paipo, but they are too small to be used as surfboards. in case you do not know them

https://www.softechsoftboards.com/rocke ... -softboard
https://www.softechsoftboards.com/rocke ... -softboard
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#14

Unread post by flojo »

Hi Asier-Regarding those soft boards you just posted about- I have the Rocket 50( 4 ft 2 inch). I use it as a paipo and
Have a lot of fun with it. It catches waves easily and is fast. I removed the keel fins that came with it and replaced
Them with small fins which are stiffer.

But I am no expert or purist...I just do what’s fun for me.

Flojo
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#15

Unread post by flojo »

Hey Rod, I am in the central California coast on a vacation and stopped by the Toobs factory to get
Some answers to your questions. I took some photos also.
The board is 22.5 at it widest point and tapers to
21.75 at the tail.
You can see the rails in the attached photo.

It also has a real nose rocker.
In person, to me, it looks like the tail is so wide it would slide around a lot.
I like fairly parallel rails so the shape itself appeals to me if
I added some small fins on the tail.

Retails at $299.

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#16

Unread post by rodndtube »

Flojo, thanks for the info. Real rocker for sure, wow, I wasn't expecting that. Those are parallel rails and a wide tail, at least for me, and even with small fins would seem to be a stiff turner although maybe there is a lot of flex throughout the board. What small stiff fins did you use?
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#17

Unread post by flojo »

Rod, the board I looked at was pretty stiff-it had some kind of carbon mesh imbedded in it as well as stringers.

My comment about adding fins was only speculation—I did not buy this board...I was just curious about it.

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#18

Unread post by Nels »

I believe the carbon mesh and stringers both have some flex and recoil...both are there to stiffen the board and protect from creasing (bodyboard version of breaking). As to the shape I think a clue may come from the model name: Soap Bar. Looks inspired by the Tyler Warren Bar of Soap model, itself of the mini-simmons lineage. Pure speculation though.

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#19

Unread post by zensuni »

flojo wrote:Hi Asier-Regarding those soft boards you just posted about- I have the Rocket 50( 4 ft 2 inch). I use it as a paipo and
Have a lot of fun with it. It catches waves easily and is fast. I removed the keel fins that came with it and replaced
Them with small fins which are stiffer.

But I am no expert or purist...I just do what’s fun for me.

Flojo
I got a Softech 48" rocket fuel model recently, my son uses it for standup surfing occasionnaly.
It is quite stiff and very floatty, I tested it prone in small waves only.
I was hopping a "longboard effect" that would help in small waves, but that was not really the case.
Actually, it gave the best in some hollow waves using it as a kneeboard, lot of fun since the kneels allowed to do some radical turns.
Having said that I think the classic bodyoard / paipo smaller shape works best for prone surfing, even in small waves.
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#20

Unread post by krusher74 »

Its interesting to see how the average size paipo is viewed/owned and then projected on to bodyboards.

95% of bodyboards for 30 years have been in the 40-42" size range. Shaped and designed by many (some multi) world champions.

The extra 5-10"s a lot of you guys would add to them would give them more volume and planing area (catch waves easier) but make them much harder to manoeuvre. Basically they same as a stand up surfer being on a 6.6 in bigger waves but wishes it would turn like his 5.11.

The bodyboard does also not function well as a "longboard" as it much harder to distribute weight towards the nose and tail of the board when needed.
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#21

Unread post by rodndtube »

I am with you on this, Krusher, as in my opinion the 42" boogie board already has so much more flotation than my 50" paipos. But, as you know, different strokes for different folks, from "SUP paipos" to "barely buoyant wood paipos."
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#22

Unread post by krusher74 »

rodndtube wrote:I am with you on this, Krusher, as in my opinion the 42" boogie board already has so much more flotation than my 50" paipos. But, as you know, different strokes for different folks, from "SUP paipos" to "barely buoyant wood paipos."
Yeah, I'm still on a quest to have a custom bodyboard made as similar to my paipo design as possible to see how similarly they ride give the different constructions. (hopefully this winter)

With the bodyboard industry being small and catering to its main market. In standard shop boards there isnt really the diversity of boards there should be to correctly cater to all people. For example if you have 3 guys who are all 5'10 they should all ride a 42" (this is going to be the best ergonomic length) but one might be 140lbs next 180lbs anf third 225lbs. The stock 42" bodyboard is going to suit a 160lbs rider, so volume wise bit big for guy 1, bit small for guy 2 and far to small for guy 3.

And this is one main reason people struggle with bodyboards. They dont do different volumes of a 42" board. other than the fact there is no industry standard on board thickness, or volume written on boards. So when you buy that 42" of the internet its a lottery as to what volume your gonna get.
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#23

Unread post by nomastomas »

"... I'm still on a quest to have a custom bodyboard made as similar to my paipo design as possible to see how similarly they ride give the different constructions."

Now THAT would be interesting! Use a mailing tube to send them a construction paper template, and define the angle of the rails. They should have no problem cutting the outline and rails (which is done simultaneously on a band saw) The difficulty will come with shaping the concave bottom with the V out at the rails. That's going to require some planer work with a grit barrel and a disc sander to finish. (Chemically, bodyboard cores are pretty much all variations of polypropylene foam, which is very rubbery. The quality that gives it its toughness also makes it hard to shape. A planer with blades will tear chunks out, while a grit barrel is more like sanding with 36g paper) Once the core is shaped, the skins can be applied as usual. It will require much more labor than the typical bodyboard, which is where the cost will be impacted. Still, a very interesting project, nonetheless...
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#24

Unread post by krusher74 »

nomastomas wrote:"... I'm still on a quest to have a custom bodyboard made as similar to my paipo design as possible to see how similarly they ride give the different constructions."

Now THAT would be interesting! Use a mailing tube to send them a construction paper template, and define the angle of the rails. They should have no problem cutting the outline and rails (which is done simultaneously on a band saw) The difficulty will come with shaping the concave bottom with the V out at the rails. That's going to require some planer work with a grit barrel and a disc sander to finish. (Chemically, bodyboard cores are pretty much all variations of polypropylene foam, which is very rubbery. The quality that gives it its toughness also makes it hard to shape. A planer with blades will tear chunks out, while a grit barrel is more like sanding with 36g paper) Once the core is shaped, the skins can be applied as usual. It will require much more labor than the typical bodyboard, which is where the cost will be impacted. Still, a very interesting project, nonetheless...
The Ex Toobs custom board builder has beem putting concaves etc in all his boards for years. He's just up the road from you. i've just been waiting for him to get Ronin bodyboards going and hopefully this winter will get my custom. https://www.facebook.com/roninbodyboard ... =3&theater

Its interesting that I would say over 95% of bodyboarders I have met over the years have very little knowledge of board design and dont really seem to care. And most seem to duscribe bodyboards as expensive even though there the cheapest surf craft you can buy! :shock:

Its a strange subculture. Paipo riders seem to have much more in common with stand up surfers than they do with bodyboarders,
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#25

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

nomastomas wrote:"... I'm still on a quest to have a custom bodyboard made as similar to my paipo design as possible to see how similarly they ride give the different constructions."

Now THAT would be interesting! Use a mailing tube to send them a construction paper template, and define the angle of the rails. They should have no problem cutting the outline and rails (which is done simultaneously on a band saw) The difficulty will come with shaping the concave bottom with the V out at the rails. That's going to require some planer work with a grit barrel and a disc sander to finish.
Krusher, don't your boards also have quite round rails up front and belly up front(?) ? Those are not such simple cuts in bb world I think though it could likely be figured out how to do them by hand
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#26

Unread post by nomastomas »

Its pretty clear that the lower cost of bodyboards compared to foam-and-glass is directly related to the labor required to produce them. While EPP foam can be shaped, apparently there is no demand for shapes that require much more than a little band saw work, and maybe a couple of "channels" scrubbed in (looking st the Toobs site, I couldn't find any true half-length blended concaves, such as the ones on Keith's board or mine). They (shapers and riders) seem to be of the "if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it" philosophy. And, with stunning performances at Pipe and Teahoopo, who's to argue?
"This is a paipo site...isn't it?"
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#27

Unread post by zensuni »

A good alternative would be a epoxy/fiberglass paipo covered with a soft top, I have a surf boards like that.
It is nice because you can feel that it is stiff, heavy and won't bend under pressure, but it won't hurt you.
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#28

Unread post by Nels »

Higher end bodyboards now run just south of $300. Given the size relative to short boards for standup surfing the cost is roughly in line. Of course comparing things that way is probably fraught with peril. I suspect the bodyboard costs are distributed differently than with contemporary surfboard materials and construction.

Clyde Beatty Jr. has a version of epoxy covered with some soft material in his paipo, but it's that thin soft "skin". I have no idea how a ding on those boards would be repaired.

As to the somewhat stale appearance of bodyboard design I seem to be joining the "if it ain't broke" mindset (at least today on a lazy Sunday afternoon)...but after nearly 5 decades of hardcore surfing I don't kid myself that I'm out pushing any barriers in the grand sense. Just trying to push the personal limits of fun! I once asked a friend of Greenough why no bodyboard company offered him $20,000 dollars and a bunch of bodyboard materials to see what he could come up with; the second-hand reply was that those types of offers usually came with all kinds of regulating stipulations and he didn't need the hassle.

I read somewhere, some time, years ago, that Tom Morey observed that the Boogie/bodyboard is like a mammal...soft on the outside, structure on the inside, as opposed to the exo-skeleton that is the standard board. Like a living thing. And a real sponge is a living thing...

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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#29

Unread post by krusher74 »

GeoffreyLevens wrote:
nomastomas wrote:"... I'm still on a quest to have a custom bodyboard made as similar to my paipo design as possible to see how similarly they ride give the different constructions."

Now THAT would be interesting! Use a mailing tube to send them a construction paper template, and define the angle of the rails. They should have no problem cutting the outline and rails (which is done simultaneously on a band saw) The difficulty will come with shaping the concave bottom with the V out at the rails. That's going to require some planer work with a grit barrel and a disc sander to finish.
Krusher, don't your boards also have quite round rails up front and belly up front(?) ? Those are not such simple cuts in bb world I think though it could likely be figured out how to do them by hand
I have a bodyboard 20 years ago with a rail that went from chined in the rear to round in the front so I know that can be done. front belly i'm not sure of :?

I'm most interested in the rear half being as similar as possible to my paipo that's the business end 8-)
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Re: Bodyboards discuss (the soft paipo)

#30

Unread post by krusher74 »

nomastomas wrote:Its pretty clear that the lower cost of bodyboards compared to foam-and-glass is directly related to the labor required to produce them. While EPP foam can be shaped, apparently there is no demand for shapes that require much more than a little band saw work, and maybe a couple of "channels" scrubbed in (looking st the Toobs site, I couldn't find any true half-length blended concaves, such as the ones on Keith's board or mine). They (shapers and riders) seem to be of the "if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it" philosophy. And, with stunning performances at Pipe and Teahoopo, who's to argue?
This board had single concave (the only current buyable board i know with it.) https://www.stealthboards.com/products/speed-dealer-iss

"The main difference from other boards, is a rail to rail single concave bottom in place of channels. A single concave provides lift, facilitating water flow, providing greater speed in clean waves. As this water is channelled through the board tail, this provides the hold normally produced by channels. This is technology is achieved by an AKU shaping machine, using process’ derived from the surfboard industry."
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