44.25 paipo

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44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:01 pm

good morning, I'm super happy with the paipo de horns in big waves is going very well. I've tried it in waves of 1.5m, it seems that it sails the train tracks, happy
 
Now I'm thinking of something with more spin, I follow the same path as a surfboard.

in this design I have only barred the tail, removing the horns. I have put 4 fins, but following the way that the surfboard 2 lateral and 2 central

What do you think about this position of fins?
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby Pes78 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:00 am

general rule is on wide tails you would want your fins placed closed to the rail.
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:28 am

The idea of centering the rear ends is to work without the turbulence generated by the front ends, so they get the maximum performance

Has someone mounted fins like that? How did it work?
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby rodndtube » Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:20 am

As a trailer, I might just go with a single small fin instead of two. Maybe even a knubster type.
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:20 am

a very interesting idea, I'm going to study it seriously. 2 + 1 type mark richards
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:46 am

I've been looking at bodyboard photos, for my taste the most successful version in 2 or 4 fins.

I have modified the template. adjustments in the tail. a little narrower, I want a big push from the waves worse if something more turn goes from 95 to 92.5%

I think it starts to have good shape
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby nomastomas » Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:06 pm

I suggest you study McKee's Quatro Formula. It's not just about fin placement, but individual fin template as well. He lays it all out.
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:44 pm

http://www.mckeesurf.com/?page_id=267

for the position of the keels I followed the tables that mckee provides, adapted a bit to the paipo.

I still need to define the toe in del fins but surely the front ones are 1/8 and the rear ones parallel

not being what you mean, the kind of fins to ride? Is this graphic? http://www.mckeesurf.com/wp/wp-content/ ... ble_02.png
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby nomastomas » Sat Oct 13, 2018 12:49 pm

1/8" front and 0" rear favors speed over turning.
1/4" front and 1/8" rear favors turning over speed.
But also...
Larger fin front and smaller fin rear favors drive
Larger fin rear and smaller fin front more pivot-y turns.
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby rodndtube » Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:57 pm

Nomas, within the specs you mention above is there much comment on fin (skeg) plan shape?
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby nomastomas » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:52 pm

Short answer is yes, but McKee goes into great detail regarding the various FCS templates and How they function in quad set ups.
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby nomastomas » Sat Oct 13, 2018 11:11 pm

There's almost too much information on fin template combinations. McKee uses the FCS fin nomenclature to help identify potential quad fin sets. Its a little tricky at first, but once you realize x3 fins are small, x5 fins are medium and x7 fins are large it's a bit easier to understand. So, M5 fins and G5 fins are the same template. in different material composition. GX or GS fins are longboard side bites. He also discusses fins with different foils, e.g asymmetric flat, 80/20, 60/40, and when to use symmetric 50/50 center fins. Many third party fin makers (True Ames, Shaper Australia to name two) use some variation of the FCS nomenclature to identify their "2-tab" fin-base fins, so the rider is not restricted to just FCS branded fins. His Quadra Formula is pretty specific, although he has tables for shortboards, longboards and kneeboards. Because unlike Futures, which require a shallow 1/2" rear fin box to accommodate Future quad fin sets instead of the Future standard 3/4" box, FCS and other "2-tab" fins can be taken from any tri-fin set or LB side bite set, new or used. (just stay away from FCS II) Additionally, FCS Fusion fin boxes can be ordered in 0-deg, 5-deg and 9-deg cant setting. All in all, plenty of ways to customize and dial-in your ride.
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:15 am

I have been making tables for 3 years, all with fcs fusion, I do not like neither future nor fcs2. I have many fins from my surfboards, I like to do tests, that's why I have no problems

Surfboards I have quite clear the position of the keels, in normal boards, I have done quite rare things with doubts, but in general, I have no problems

is costing me, accept the concepts of board a paipo, I always have the feeling that I need longer measures to put the ideas I have, to design them I feel shrunken and there are doubts
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:57 am

Today in waves that close with force I have had a very strong blow against the horned paipo, I've done enough damage, I'm fine.

has made me rethink the design and make this paipo without fins, I'm thinking of a smooth design but with channels that allow me to run the paced without slipping
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby rodndtube » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:32 pm

asier esnal wrote:Today in waves that close with force I have had a very strong blow against the horned paipo, I've done enough damage, I'm fine.

has made me rethink the design and make this paipo without fins, I'm thinking of a smooth design but with channels that allow me to run the paced without slipping


Yes, if what you are saying means something like powerful shore break then hard boards, fins and point tails (horns) can put one at risk.

The term for the tail shape as "horns" keeps throwing me for a loop, however, because of one paipo rider who uses horns as handles for his boards. See the interview here:
https://mypaipoboards.org/interviews/Pa ... 0813.shtml
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby krusher74 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:50 pm

asier esnal wrote:Today in waves that close with force I have had a very strong blow against the horned paipo, I've done enough damage, I'm fine.

has made me rethink the design and make this paipo without fins, I'm thinking of a smooth design but with channels that allow me to run the paced without slipping


Remember water likes to stick to a rounded surface and break from a hard edge so you dont want hard channels.

My finless design has enough hold for a hard bottom turn on a 10ft wave you are welcome to the CNC cut file if you would like to look at it.
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:14 pm

rodndtube thank you very much for the information, the work of Paul Witzig is very curious, I really liked it and I had a lot of fun, it has to be a great person, with a very restless head

  krusher74 I'm going to do all rounded edges, I do not want hard songs, I'll look for a good grip on the waves, the type of turn is what worries me the least, the winter waves are going to be very hard, surf with very little flow
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:18 pm

I already have the paipo carved in eps, these photos are not of the finished process. but it is already complete. has a clear influence of the bodyboard vs QuadConcave


Now I have to laminate fiberglass.

  but I have left the eps with a very good flex and I'm sorry to have to put resin and fabric so that it stays like a hard stone, with hardly any flex and when I hit my head it hurts me

Is there any other alternative to fiberglass? give a latex cover, or some other sealant to avoid deriving that flex and that does not have water? Could you laminate only one face and give an insulating product? This is the first time that I consider alternatives

I have found a product called polyurea, but it has been impossible for me to buy in small quantities. any ideas? There has to be something alternative to the typical products of surfboards

forgive for the cleanliness of the room, these days is being crazy, I have not finished this period and I already have 2 surfboards to do, apart from my work and family, I do not have almost time to enter the water

if you are curious about the closet you see in the photo is for curing uv polyester, made with the lamps of a solarium
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:26 pm

I have applied white glue to the paipo, pva, so I can now laminate with uv polyester without the eps falling out, careful to seal, a pore will ruin all the work of shape. this is a trick of the 70s

but I still do not want to give polyester or fiberglass
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:35 pm

How can I paste this to the paipo? I've seen bodyboard videos that apply heat, but those plates have a tail already prepared to just heat and paste? the eps I do not think it can hold so much heat

it's happening to me, laminate fiber l apart from below and paste some of this up

PE polyethylene is compatible with polyester?


Decks
You guessed correctly! The deck is the material on a bodyboard that you lie on. The usual configuration for deck material is 8lb (density per inch) PE (polyethylene). PE decks are soft and flexible just like PE Cores but, similarly, after time they’re unable to find their original shape. Indentations and creases in areas under pressure also develop quickly in PE decks.

Manufacturers are looking at ways to stop this happening but some riders prefer their boards a little warn in, with elbow divots through continued use and mellow deck creases.

The alternative to a PE deck is known as crosslink, a thinner 6lb cell structure that absorbs less water whilst being more durable but it tends to be far stiffer. This is often used on boards in the £100 and under price bracket as it’s slightly cheaper to produce. If you purchase one of these numbers be aware it requires more wax for traction, this is due to its vinyl feel and touch. The type of deck you will get really comes down to budget.
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:09 pm

paipo finished and ready to enter the water
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby bgreen » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:18 pm

It will be interesting to hear your experience. I rode this board a few times.

Garrett2.jpg
Garrett5.jpg


It was fun on fuller, down the line waves, but it didn't hold an edge in a tube as well as my current board. The board is a lot thicker than it looks - about 3".
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby krusher74 » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:07 pm

bgreen wrote:It will be interesting to hear your experience. I rode this board a few times.

Garrett2.jpg
Garrett5.jpg


It was fun on fuller, down the line waves, but it didn't hold an edge in a tube as well as my current board. The board is a lot thicker than it looks - about 3".


That's an extreme one! :o

I see a lot of boards with a big deck scoop for the person to lie centrally in, I think it misunderstood a lot that to hold the rail/edge on a bodyboard/finless paipo you really get your weight over the rail as much as possible, I have my hip/elbow right over on the rail when riding, I think these deck scoop that pushes riders into a more central riding position without the help of fins really hinder rail traction
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:35 pm

krusher74: that is a comment that has surprised me, I have never taken into account: I have my hip / elbow right over on the rail when riding
for this in the design I think about the shape of the channels that do the grip function.

a friend will give me a bodyboard in good condition, I will enter, for a while, with the in the water and rethink the designs based on your recommendation
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:32 pm

I've been using this paipo for a few days. I can say that I am not very comfortable with him. the channels seem not to make too much effect, I've had a few unexpected skids. It has too much volume in the nose, makes it float a lot in this part and I have trouble reading and it does not go parallel to the water, I do not know if it is because of the nose but it bounces a lot, I catch a wave and I give more jumps than a frog surrounded of mosquitoes. I'm really not liking

possible improvements?

1) the channels in a distance as short as a paipo almost do not execute, unless they are too exacted what brakes the whole, better to take up the idea of ​​ends

2) thinner rails, I've done a lot of recess in the center to mold the body, and as I have to put the foam somewhere move it to the sides, SheeeeIIIIItttttt, better part gives more flat and finer rails

3) outline? puf in this I do not have anything clear and I need your advice for the next model I'm considering making some design type to those of nomastomas, viewtopic.php?f=4&t=775 first picture paipo medium

Image
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Re: quad fins 44.25 paipo

Unread postby rodndtube » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:23 pm

There have been several evolutions in the board since the first description (e.g., the thread title still says quad fins). Please provided updated specifications including nose and tail rockers.
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Re: 44.25 paipo

Unread postby asier esnal » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:43 pm

true, forgive. At first, the idea was to make a paipo with 4 keels, but when trying an earlier design I decided not to put ends and make channels, following the second plane that collects, I also put it here below

I do not have planes of nose and tail rockers. for the first paipo I cut 2 tables with stringer shape and are the ones I use to be born the roquer, since I found it from the beginning a very successful way, I use the technique of cutting by hot wire for eps

in the photo below you can see the paipo roker, tail plane and 2.7 in the nose that gives me a good speed but I have not had a chance to nail in the nose. removing a model that I did the rest have been relatively short, compared to the ones that you do

Image
Image
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Re: 44.25 paipo

Unread postby zensuni » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:42 am

I'm not a shaper, although here's my theory: the rails are very tick and rounded, so it makes it difficult to bite the wave face. Also, the board is wide but not that long, so you don't have much rail surface to bite the wave.
Regarding the chop, the tickness and the buyancy don't help either. A thin, not buoyant board works better in the chop, cause it just pierces it instead of rebounding on it, resulting in more water projections in your face but a less bumpy ride.
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Re: 44.25 paipo

Unread postby GeoffreyLevens » Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:03 pm

A little convex/roundness, under nose can also go a long ways towards smoothing chop. I too thought rails looked a bit thick. OK for very small, weak waves but would indeed tend to slide out in any juice or steep
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Re: 44.25 paipo

Unread postby nomastomas » Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:09 pm

The way I see it, the typical prone board outline coupled with a relatively flat bottom is a very efficient planing surface. Volume (typically derived through adjustments in thickness) needs to be modulated to match wave size and power, and rider weight. Bottom contours, fins, deck contours, rail shape, etc should not be considered until the basic outline and volume has been determined. I always go back to the tried and true foam body board as the baseline. They are readily available. Ride one in the waves conditions you prefer, and decide what you like and/or don't like about the ride. Then, design a shape that has the features you believe will enhance the ride. Just don't make too many changes at once. My G5 design didn't just appear out of thin air. It was the end result of five major design changes, with multiple design "tweaks" in between, over the course of 10yrs. It requires patience and time in the water to develop a functional surfcraft. Take your time, understand how surfcraft function, always "know" why a design feature works, or strive to understand why it doesn't, be methodical in your approach (Larry Goddard-esque).
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Re: 44.25 paipo

Unread postby bgreen » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:21 pm

I'm a bit lost with all the ideas. I think Nomastomas has some sound advice. What is the design that you think works best, so far?
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