paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
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zensuni
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#31

Unread post by zensuni »

Nice waves in the video !
Now I understand why you need some rocker.
Big choppy and windy waves, probably not the ideal conditions for a flat plywood finless board indeed...
A surfmat might be fun in these conditions, but if you don't like side slipping, forget it :lol:
These waves remind me this vintage paipo footage where some guys have epic rides on paipos:
https://vimeo.com/9742493
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#32

Unread post by asier esnal »

zensuni wrote:Nice waves in the video !
Now I understand why you need some rocker.
Big choppy and windy waves, probably not the ideal conditions for a flat plywood finless board indeed...
A surfmat might be fun in these conditions, but if you don't like side slipping, forget it :lol:
These waves remind me this vintage paipo footage where some guys have epic rides on paipos:
https://vimeo.com/9742493
I saw that video time ago and it was revealing, actually I want to do that. I sell surfing on those waves, with gums tables around 8 or 9 feet. by circumstances of life I went to live in a town a few kilometers, I consider surfing with the paipo as it gives me great mobility, I charge it on the motorcycle and go to the water,

  I have found the meaning of my surf, really now I do not want to enter the water with a surfboard, but I aim to return to those waves, lying down and with fins on my feet, start to push myself and notice the speed pure and simple speed. that is the objective and my search

these are 2 board that I am shaping, blue is for waves of considerable size, no big waves, that is for really crazy friends but for waves of 2 to 3m

es
vi ese video hace tiempo y fue revelador, realmente yo quiero hacer eso. vendo de hacer surf en esas olas, con gums tablas en torno a 8 o 9 pies. por circunstancias de la vida me fui a vivir a un pueblo a pocos kilometros, me plantee surfear con el paipo ya que me aporta una gran movilidad, lo cargo en la moto y voy al agua ,

he encontrado el sentido de mi surf, realmente ahora no quiero entrar al agua con tabla de surf, pero tengo como objetivo volver a esas olas, tumbado y con aletas en los pies, empezar a impulsarme y notar la velocidad pura y simple velocidad. ese es el objetivo y mi búsqueda

estas son 2 board que las shapeado yo, la azul es para olas de tamaño considerable, no big waves, eso ya es para amigos realmente locos pero si para olas de 2 a 3m

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zensuni
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#33

Unread post by zensuni »

Nice boards, interresting fins setup, 2 parralels longboard fins ?
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#34

Unread post by asier esnal »

You said it right, there are 2 parallel longboard fins. One of the big problems of the boards with a single fins is the width of the board in tail to 12 inches, if you want to have good grip, the tail has to be 14, 14.5 as much width, from there onwards the fin with the rail of the board loses effectiveness, of there are put keels so big in some longboard, with this system of fins, this problem disappears, gives a touch to the board between singelfin and twinfin that I adore

es
lo has dicho bien, son 2 fins paralelas de longboard. uno de los grandes problemas de las tablas con un solo fin es el ancho de la tabla en tail a 12 pulgadas, si quieres tener buen agarre, el tail tiene que ser de 14, 14.5 como mucho de ancho, de hay en adelante la quilla con el rail de la tabla pierde efectividad, de hay poner quillas tan grandes en algunos longboard, con este sistema de fins, este problema desaparece, da un tacto al board entre singelfin y twinfin que adoro
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#35

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

zensuni wrote:A surfmat might be fun in these conditions, but if you don't like side slipping, forget it
In my experience, 1-2 foot mushy wind waves to 6+ ft steep but not barrels, to 4-5 foot tubes, with practice and proper inflation for the waves, side slipping is almost completely optional on a modern surfmat. Had to be said... ;)
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#36

Unread post by Uncle Grumpy »

GeoffreyLevens wrote:
zensuni wrote:A surfmat might be fun in these conditions, but if you don't like side slipping, forget it
In my experience, 1-2 foot mushy wind waves to 6+ ft steep but not barrels, to 4-5 foot tubes, with practice and proper inflation for the waves, side slipping is almost completely optional on a modern surfmat. Had to be said... ;)
Practice is the thing.
IMO Finless craft of most types require more patience and water time before their benefits become worth it.
Paipo surfer in repose,
Nose on the nose,
No grunting he-man pose.
See how fast he goes!
What is it he knows?
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#37

Unread post by asier esnal »

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Last edited by asier esnal on Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#38

Unread post by bgreen »

I don't reckon you can go past: http://www.surfmats.com/

Paul posts anywhere
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#39

Unread post by asier esnal »

bgreen wrote:I don't reckon you can go past: http://www.surfmats.com/

Paul posts anywhere
forgive for the inconvenience, surf mat has been a fleeting idea, I prefer the null flotation of wooden paipos. I can not assume the price you've given me, I love making my toys and try them in the water, for me it's the most fun of all

es
perdonar por las molestias, surf mat ha sido una idea fugaz, prefiero la nula flotación de los paipos de madera. no puedo asumir el precio que me has pasado, me apasiona hacer mis juguetes y probarlos en el agua, para mi es lo mas divertido de todo
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#40

Unread post by rodndtube »

Dale uno con Graeme de GB. https://customsurfmats.com/ y https://www.matsurfers.com/

Give Grame a call. He will also tell you that low inflation works much better than "inflated."
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#41

Unread post by asier esnal »

Does not have any model leashes? and if a very fat wave comes and you lose it? you drown? :shock: :oops:

es
no tiene ningún modelo leashes? y si viene una ola muy gorda y lo pierdes? tu te ahogas?
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#42

Unread post by zensuni »

I had a krypt surf mat for 2 years, I loved it, the learning process was quite hard (that was the "side slipping" part I was referring to), but after a lot of sessions I was as confortable rinding the mat than my paipo or my bodyboard. Then the krypt mat was destroyed (my fault), I bought a 4gears flyer omni surfmat, great quality mat, but this one is slighty bigger than the krypt, so now I have to get used to again (hello again side slipping).
To my experience, mats may not look fun to watch, but are great fun to surf, it is a different glide, very subtle, kind of a "zen" thing.
The downside is that it is difficult to duck dive a surf mat effisciently, so if no channel, paddling out can be a problem (no leash). But this is partly balanced by the fact than in case of wipeout you just "bear hug" the mat, you won't get hurt.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#43

Unread post by rodndtube »

Apparently wind is more of a concern than a wave, and duck diving is not easy.
asier esnal wrote:Does not have any model leashes? and if a very fat wave comes and you lose it? you drown? :shock: :oops:

es
no tiene ningún modelo leashes? y si viene una ola muy gorda y lo pierdes? tu te ahogas?
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#44

Unread post by zensuni »

asier esnal wrote:You said it right, there are 2 parallel longboard fins.
I wonder how this setup would work on a paipo, and in general, how single fins work on paipo boards
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#45

Unread post by rodndtube »

Single fins work, I rode a single fin paipo for a long time, during the late-1960s, 1970s, until maybe mid-1980s. On the other hand, the tail was somewhat narrower that what I evolved to with 3- or 5-fin setups. My single fins usually ranged from 8 to 6 inches, going smaller over time, and now I generally use a 4.5 inch center fin with two small side bites or 4 small runners (Bonzer).
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#46

Unread post by asier esnal »

zensuni wrote:
asier esnal wrote:You said it right, there are 2 parallel longboard fins.
I wonder how this setup would work on a paipo, and in general, how single fins work on paipo boards
These are the first 2 paipos I did, with the configuration of 2 fins of longboard, but as I did not have money to buy so many keels, I made them in aluminum, the behavior is somewhat slow in turns, they give the feeling of boring, very reliable and safe but boring, so move to side fins looking for more fun behavior

es
estos son los 2 primeros paipos que hice, con la configuración de 2 fins de longboard, pero como no tenia dinero para comprar tantas quillas, las hice en aluminio, el comportamiento es algo lento en giros, dan la sensación de aburridos, muy fiables y seguros pero aburridos, por eso pase a quillas laterales buscando un comportamiento mas divertido
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#47

Unread post by rodndtube »

The really smart people would talk about characteristics of a fin's shape, height, base length and "rake." And where it is positioned on the board. A standard long board center fin is not conducive to easy quick turns/pivoting, so it can feel stiffer. But the fin is good for projection. Even those little knubsters, with their long bases, are conducive to helping project in one's turns, those longer arching turns.

A good center fin box where one can move a fin forward and aft also provides flexibility for adapting to varying wave conditions.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#48

Unread post by asier esnal »

I have not put the measures of the keels for not extending myself in the story, since this post is oriented to the manufacture of paipo with paulownia and polyester. but if you want to comment, i do it

first I designed some fins SF-4 PC Stretch Quad Set scaled to 4.5 high, I did not like the behavior

the fins that you see in the fiber paipos are inspired by the models of windsurfing, not surfing, they work with very interesting models that I wanted to try. Before manufacturing, design different fins in 3d to understand how the forces and turbulences they generate work. From this study I drew the conclusion that the models were close to what I wanted https://www.k4fins.com/product/zbd/ https://www.k4fins.com/product/rocket-fronts-trailers/

blue paipo, height 4.5 base 4,
paipo garnet height 5.5 base 4.5
I do not know the sweep angle. the garnet is more delayed than the blue, these designs were the ones I liked the most when making the 3d but I do not remember it. delete the file


es

no he puesto las medidas de las quillas por no extenderme en el relato, ya que este post esta orientado la fabricación de paipo con paulownia y poliester. pero si quieres lo comento

primero diseñe unas quillas SF-4 PC Stretch Quad Set escaladas a 4.5 de alto, no me gusto el comportamiento

las quillas que ves en los paipos de fibra están inspiradas en los modelos de windsurf, no de surf, ellos trabajan con modelos muy interesantes que he querido probar. antes de fabricar diseñe en 3d diferentes quillas para entender el funcionamiento las fuerzas y turbulencias que generan. de este estudio saqué la conclusión que los modelos se acercaban a lo que queria https://www.k4fins.com/product/zbd/ https://www.k4fins.com/product/rocket-fronts-trailers/

paipo azul, altura 4.5 base 4,
paipo granate altura 5.5 base 4.5
no se el ángulo sweep. el granate es más retrasado que el azul, estos diseños fueron los que más me gustaron al hacer el 3d pero no lo recuerdo. borre el archivo
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

#49

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

As mentioned above, duck diving a mat is a bugger. BUT they have easily variable inflation. Paddle out very soft or empty (swim it out) if necessary, and get under white water no problem. Then a few puffs and ready to ride.
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