paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

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paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:51 pm

First paipo prototype made in paulowia polyester and fiberglass. It has been much better than expected
I want to thank Sergi Flama Galanó and Patxi Navarro for their great help and all of you from the forum that make it so great

the paipo is a 44x21.5x18mm of paulowia on a single board, I put it on top of a board with a block on the end, 90mm rocker. I have refined it I have not done any previous treatment, neither heat nor wet, I have counted it to contrabeta is the most important of this idea

I have enfibrado with a cloth on each side of 6 oz and uv polyester. After the release, there is a 60mm rocker with an elastic bed flex, very noble, not bamboo type. when putting fiber and resin has picked up weight, it has remained in 3.2kg

I leave you a video of flex, I do not know how I can do it so that you see it directly in the forum

https://www.facebook.com/asier.esnal.9/videos/pcb.2116774655053291/2116774541719969/?type=3&theater
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:53 pm

it's already finished, I'm a little afraid of the weight, it's been 4kg counting the fins and everything. Will it float enough? I have to find a way to lighten

You can remove the fiberglass and resin and paste a thin sheet of melamine, synthetic wood imitation veneer and many colors to make furniture
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby bgreen » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:55 pm

Treat it as an experiment. Try it without fins. It may be too heavy as you don't need to even glass pauwlonia. Oiling them can give a good finish.

Without fins and fibreglass these are low flotation boards - they will have their place. You won't be outpaddling SUPs.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:29 pm

to get the rocker and that flex I have to cut the wood in contraction direction to the feed, if I do not give fiberglass part by just touching it,

I do not like the paipos without fins, nor the bodyboard, I hate the lateral displacements and skids
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby bgreen » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:49 pm

Do you use google translate? I'm not sure what you mean by: "if I do not give fiberglass part by just touching it,"

You'll find these thin wood boards don't spin out like foam boards or boogie might. They are a different craft and sit in the water more.

The real test is in the water.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:33 am

Do you use google translate? yes, unfortunately I have no ability to learn English, I have tried . I have dyslexia, this gives me a very restless mind with a lot of creativity, but it prevents me from writing and reading. I can not have everything in life, I'm happy as I am

I'm not sure what you mean by: "if I do not give fiberglass part by just touching it," the wood is terribly weak,

They are a different craft and sit in the water more.: I'm very happy to hear this. I'm going to give the paipo a few hours in the water to draw conclusions, maybe with only 2 keels and smaller make the function, I always have time to put another 2 plugs in the middle of the 4 that I have put.

the paulowia costs me 20e per paipo, it allows me to make a few paipos

Thank you very much for the recommendations
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby bgreen » Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:25 am

Ok, if I understand you correctly, you are saying you needed to glass the board, because the wood is too weak. It is a light wood but shouldn't be too soft (you shouldn't be able to squeeze it and make a dent).

Try the board - you'll soon know if it works or not. If it doesn't paddle too well, it may be a shorebreak board.

Enjoy the ride.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby GeoffreyLevens » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:41 pm

Bob, I think he meant that it needed glass because he cut it out so that the grain runs across the width of the board to increase flex; but that weakens it considerably so--glass. I really like the look of the flex in the video/FB link. Nice and springy.

Asier esnal, thin wood board like that one, the edges can act as fin if you properly use your hips and hands to push them into the water/wave face. It is a different style or method of controlling the board than for one with fins. And no fins is faster! ;)
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby GeoffreyLevens » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:43 pm

I spent a bunch of time in Ecuador. Though I knew a little Spanish and was studying it, I had to use google translate a couple times for critical banking issues and it would have been hilarious if there hadn't been so much of my life's savings on the line! Total slap stick comedy with officious, Kafkaesque, bank prigs and regulations.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:41 pm

GeoffreyLevens

Bob, I think he meant that it needed glass because he cut it out so that the grain runs across the width of the board to increase flex; but that weakens it considerably so--glass. I really like the look of the flex in the video/FB link. Nice and springy.

perfect, that's what I wanted to say, I feel the confusion, I do not know how to solve my writings in English, I'm really sorry
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:50 pm

these are some image captures for which you can not see the video
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby bgreen » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:30 pm

Thanks Geoffrey, this may have been explained previously and I missed it.

Time will tell whether working cross grained is a good idea or not.

If the boards are too heavy, consider, working with the grain and a different finish.

How they surf will be the test.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:02 am

I have seen this carbon fiber. laminated directly with the hotcoat: carbon fiber + polyester + paraffin, I think I can lighten the weight.

Vector Net XP 227 - 1/2" Diamond Pattern (50cm)

I do not know if with this carbon cloth I will have such good results compared to 6oz fiberglass
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby GeoffreyLevens » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:32 am

asier esnal wrote:perfect, that's what I wanted to say, I feel the confusion, I do not know how to solve my writings in English, I'm really sorry

No apology necessary. I have felt the confusion and chaos of trying to communicate in someone else's language. Some people can just pick up other languages with ease. Not me though! After 1 1/2 years of one or two hours a day study and talking to people on the street and in shops, I could just about deal with shopping for groceries, ordering food in a restaurant, or telling a taxi driver where I wanted to go. More than that I was drowning in a stormy sea :lol:
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby bgreen » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:39 am

Communication even between English speakers can be difficult. I've had people in NZ, Canada and the US not be able to understand me.

It's often helpful to translate something and then translate it back into the original language and see if it makes sense.

Rod and I have done a couple of bi-lingual interviews - he's working on a French& English one currently. An option is to make a post in Spanish and add the English translation. A good opportunity to improve our Spanish.

I've also used lots of translation programs. Translate with and between programs and see which works best.

Besides google there is:

https://spanishdictionary.cc/spanish-to-english
http://webtranslation.paralink.com/Span ... anslation/
https://www.babelfish.com/

I used to use this but it's not working currently: https://www.freetranslation.com/
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:34 am

bgreen wrote:Communication even between English speakers can be difficult. I've had people in NZ, Canada and the US not be able to understand me.

It's often helpful to translate something and then translate it back into the original language and see if it makes sense.

Rod and I have done a couple of bi-lingual interviews - he's working on a French& English one currently. An option is to make a post in Spanish and add the English translation. A good opportunity to improve our Spanish.

I've also used lots of translation programs. Translate with and between programs and see which works best.

Besides google there is:

https://spanishdictionary.cc/spanish-to-english
http://webtranslation.paralink.com/Span ... anslation/
https://www.babelfish.com/

bgreen: I used to use this but it's not working currently: https://www.freetranslation.com/


An option is to make a post in Spanish and add the English translation:

It's a great idea, from now on, if it does not bother you for complicated things, I'll use this form of communication. I'm going to look at the pages that you've passed me, I want to improve, thanks again
es una gran idea, a partir de ahora, si no os molesta para las cosas complicadas usare esta forma de comunicación. voy a mirar las paginas que me has pasado, quiero mejorar, gracias de nuevo
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby GeoffreyLevens » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:36 am

bgreen wrote:It's often helpful to translate something and then translate it back into the original language and see if it makes sense.

If not helpful, at least hilarious! Trying that when I was in Ecuador was how I found out just how much trouble I was in...
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby GeoffreyLevens » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:38 am

Or for more fun, type it in your language and translate to another and back but then copy the translation and paste to translate back and forth another time or two. Won't take many goes to end up with complete word salad.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:28 pm

first day of test. When I got into the water, I had problems with the minimum flotation of the wooden paipo, I have never had anything like that. I've gotten used to it, but I miss something more floating. Frankenboogie has good ideas, I'm thinking about 1 inch of eva

when I have taken waves it has worked perfect, it has a sensational grip, a good and nice flex, good shape inspired by the designs of nomastomas

the roker: the work has died, it has saved me from sticking the tip of the maipo into the water a few times

fins: very happy with the navigation. I have doubts, if I put 2 large fins they will work just as well and it will be less work to make the paipo

weight: in the water or it feels as heavy as under the arm, it really has not worried me. the configuration of 6ozfiberglass + 18mm paulowia + 6ozfiberglass stays like this, I will not change anything, if it works better do not touch

tomorrow again to the water. I will comment on new sensations


es
primer día de test. cuando me he metido al agua, he tenido problemas con la mínima flotación del paipo de madera, nunca he tenido algo asi. me he acostumbrado, pero echo en falta algo más de flotación.Frankenboogie tiene buenas ideas, estoy pensando en 1 pulgada de eva

cuando he cojido olas ha funcionado perfecto, tiene un agarre sensacional, un buen y agradable flex, buen shape inspirado en los diseños de nomastomas

el roker: ha perecido la pena el trabajo, me ha salvado de clavar la punta del maipo en el agua unas cuantas veces

fins: muy contento con la navegación. tengo dudas, si pongo 2 fins grandes funcionaran igual de bien y será menos trabajo para hacer el paipo

peso: en el agua no se siente tan pesado como debajo del brazo, realmente no me ha preocupado. la configuracion de 6ozfiberglass +18mm paulowia + 6ozfiberglass se queda como esta, no voy a cambiar nada, si funciona mejor no tocar

mañana otra vez al agua. os comentare nuevas sensaciones
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:05 am

Second day in the water. very happy, I have learned to go up the waves without needing the volume and the flotation, a great advance, has entered series of 1.5m and I have been able to overcome the waves very easy, so I do not need more volume, enchanted

table design: siemto 21 very wide, I have a table, I'm thinking of a second one for big waves at 19.5

fins: as this table is going to be narrower I thought of a twinfin system, to compensate for the lack of the rear keels I will put a more radical tail, with more grip, more pointed

es
segundo dia en el agua. muy contento, he aprendido ha remontar las olas sin necesitar el volumen y la flotacion, un gran avance, ha entrado series de 1.5m y he podido remontar las olas muy facil, asi que no necesito mas volumen, encantado

diseño de tabla: siemto 21 muy ancha, me sobra tabla, estoy pensando en una segunda para olas grandes en 19.5

fins: como esta tabla va a ser mas estrecha he pensado en un sistema de twinfin, para compensar la falta de las quillas trasera voy a poner un tail mas radical, con mas agarre, mas puntiagudo
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:40 pm

I have read this link carefully, I have drawn the paipo I had thought to 19. I prefer 18 to work better in vertical wind waves ,,, so I modified the plan to this measure, has the previous paipo's construction and a pod of Fiberglass reinforcement since I'm going to get into waves of 2m and I do not want it to split

he leído atentamente este enlace, he dibujado el paipo que tenia pensado a 19. prefiero de 18 funcionara mejor en olas de viento, verticales,,, asi que he modificado el plano a esta medida, tiene la cosntruccion del paipo anterior y un pod de refuerzo de fibra de vidrio ya que voy a entrar en olas de 2m y no quiero que parta

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=670
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby zensuni » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:21 am

asier esnal wrote: I do not like the paipos without fins, nor the bodyboard, I hate the lateral displacements and skids


The side slipping you described might be due to the board being quite large. If you try a finless board that is narrower and longer you will see that the inside rail actually behaves like a fin as long as you slightly lean your body inside, it doesnt side slip unless you decide to (which is fun sometimes).

Having said that, I understand that fins help a lot when waves get bigger, as you can really rely on them.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby rodndtube » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:30 am

Escribe en español and I will give it a try, "to get the rocker and that flex I have to cut the wood in contraction direction to the feed, if I do not give fiberglass part by just touching it", but I understood it as needing fiberglass to maintain the rocker.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:30 am

zensuni wrote:
asier esnal wrote: I do not like the paipos without fins, nor the bodyboard, I hate the lateral displacements and skids


The side slipping you described might be due to the board being quite large. If you try a finless board that is narrower and longer you will see that the inside rail actually behaves like a fin as long as you slightly lean your body inside, it doesnt side slip unless you decide to (which is fun sometimes).

Having said that, I understand that fins help a lot when waves get bigger, as you can really rely on them.


I have not had time to try the last paipo of 18 width that I have made. but what measures do you recommend me to go without fins, if board of paulownia is 18mm thick = 0.7in?
my measurements are 1.77m high and 75kg weight = 69.6in, high and 165lb

es
no he tenido tiempo de probar la última tabla de 18 de ancho que he hecho. pero que medidas me recomiendas para ir sin fin, si el tablero de paulownia es de 18mm de espesor=0.7in ?
mis medidas son 1.77m de alto y peso 75kg = 69,6 in, de alto y 165 lb
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby zensuni » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:46 am

asier esnal wrote:
I have not had time to try the last paipo of 18 width that I have made. but what measures do you recommend me to go without fins, if board of paulownia is 18mm thick = 0.7in?
my measurements are 1.77m high and 75kg weight = 69.6in, high and 165lb

es
no he tenido tiempo de probar la última tabla de 18 de ancho que he hecho. pero que medidas me recomiendas para ir sin fin, si el tablero de paulownia es de 18mm de espesor=0.7in ?
mis medidas son 1.77m de alto y peso 75kg = 69,6 in, de alto y 165 lb


I am 1,66m, my board is a 1cm tick varnished plywood board, no rocker, flat bottom, 120x40cm. I surf small to medium size waves, so far it works pretty good, very easy to catch waves, even the small ones. It is faster than a bodyboard, especially in longboard type waves, and not too much side slipping. I have had some fun micro barrels with that board. It is basically just a flat planing surface, but it fits well with the kind of waves I am confortable to surf.
In this video I use it: https://youtu.be/EVWwCZgZnzc

I have never tried a paipo board with fins, but I did try an HPD paipo, the same one than this photo:
Image
This is the opposite of my board, it is very wide, definitely not flat (spoon shape), relatively short, I have never really understood how to hold a line with it (a lot of side slipping !). Maybe it just doesn't fit to the french beach breacks waves :D

Checkout my youtube channel, no great surf to watch, but you can see the different shapes I tried
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9mcJ4GLcnMNAIZh0emZ7LA?view_as=subscriber
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby GeoffreyLevens » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:51 am

"I did try an HPD paipo..."

Never an HPD but made same outline out of plywood once. Seemed to me that the board required huge body position shifts so that my hip was always almost right on top of one rail or the other and hand on airborne rail used to drive the weighted rail into the wave face. That way, the thin edge could act as a fin but there was a heck of a lot of board up in the air most of the time. My thought at the time was this would be what Dorothy felt like had she tried to ride the barn door in the tornado on her way to Oz. Since the waves I first tried it in were 6-8 foot face, dredging sand barrels at local beach break, my thoughts weren't that coherent though, more like, "GLUB-GLUB Dorothy! Cough Gack Oz!"
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby zensuni » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:05 pm

GeoffreyLevens wrote:"I did try an HPD paipo..."

Never an HPD but made same outline out of plywood once. Seemed to me that the board required huge body position shifts so that my hip was always almost right on top of one rail or the other and hand on airborne rail used to drive the weighted rail into the wave face. That way, the thin edge could act as a fin but there was a heck of a lot of board up in the air most of the time. My thought at the time was this would be what Dorothy felt like had she tried to ride the barn door in the tornado on her way to Oz. Since the waves I first tried it in were 6-8 foot face, dredging sand barrels at local beach break, my thoughts weren't that coherent though, more like, "GLUB-GLUB Dorothy! Cough Gack Oz!"


:lol:
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:36 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onScB4vj70I

Now I understand, we are looking for very different waves. Give me some waves like the ones in this video with few people and I am the happiest man in the world, as you can see they are usually always moved by the wind, they have a lot of thrust and a lot of water. , I am very happy in these days of waves

es
ahora entiendo, estamos buscando olas muy diferentes.dame unas olas como las de este video con poca gente y soy el hombre mas feliz del mundo, cómo ves la solas siempre suelen estar algo movidas por el viento, tienen mucho empuje y mucha masa de agua, soy muy feliz en estos días de olas
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby rodndtube » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:22 pm

Many different waves out there and many different people riding their paipo boards on them, whether it is a local wave break that a person may not venture far from or a faraway wave that is traveled to, and everything in-between. Young 15 year olds to older 75+ year olds, super fit and healthy and sluggish and chunky and everything in-between. Cold water and hot water, heavy rubber and virtually skinless, and everything in-between. Thin finless ply to thick super multi-finned EPS glassed boards, and a lot in-between (one more refrain!). And many different riding styles.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby bgreen » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:04 pm

18-20" is ok.

The no rocker issue - some rocker helps but the boards flex is an aspect. I have a fibreglass board with no rocker and it nosedives once the wave gets hollow.

Donostia - I've been there 4 times but never surfed there. That footage shows a variety of waves. The bodyboarder's wave would be better suited for a bellyboard. The fuller, slower/closeout waves would be harder on a ply board.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby zensuni » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:04 pm

Nice waves in the video !
Now I understand why you need some rocker.
Big choppy and windy waves, probably not the ideal conditions for a flat plywood finless board indeed...
A surfmat might be fun in these conditions, but if you don't like side slipping, forget it :lol:
These waves remind me this vintage paipo footage where some guys have epic rides on paipos:
https://vimeo.com/9742493
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:00 pm

zensuni wrote:Nice waves in the video !
Now I understand why you need some rocker.
Big choppy and windy waves, probably not the ideal conditions for a flat plywood finless board indeed...
A surfmat might be fun in these conditions, but if you don't like side slipping, forget it :lol:
These waves remind me this vintage paipo footage where some guys have epic rides on paipos:
https://vimeo.com/9742493

I saw that video time ago and it was revealing, actually I want to do that. I sell surfing on those waves, with gums tables around 8 or 9 feet. by circumstances of life I went to live in a town a few kilometers, I consider surfing with the paipo as it gives me great mobility, I charge it on the motorcycle and go to the water,

  I have found the meaning of my surf, really now I do not want to enter the water with a surfboard, but I aim to return to those waves, lying down and with fins on my feet, start to push myself and notice the speed pure and simple speed. that is the objective and my search

these are 2 board that I am shaping, blue is for waves of considerable size, no big waves, that is for really crazy friends but for waves of 2 to 3m

es
vi ese video hace tiempo y fue revelador, realmente yo quiero hacer eso. vendo de hacer surf en esas olas, con gums tablas en torno a 8 o 9 pies. por circunstancias de la vida me fui a vivir a un pueblo a pocos kilometros, me plantee surfear con el paipo ya que me aporta una gran movilidad, lo cargo en la moto y voy al agua ,

he encontrado el sentido de mi surf, realmente ahora no quiero entrar al agua con tabla de surf, pero tengo como objetivo volver a esas olas, tumbado y con aletas en los pies, empezar a impulsarme y notar la velocidad pura y simple velocidad. ese es el objetivo y mi búsqueda

estas son 2 board que las shapeado yo, la azul es para olas de tamaño considerable, no big waves, eso ya es para amigos realmente locos pero si para olas de 2 a 3m

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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby zensuni » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:42 pm

Nice boards, interresting fins setup, 2 parralels longboard fins ?
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:28 pm

You said it right, there are 2 parallel longboard fins. One of the big problems of the boards with a single fins is the width of the board in tail to 12 inches, if you want to have good grip, the tail has to be 14, 14.5 as much width, from there onwards the fin with the rail of the board loses effectiveness, of there are put keels so big in some longboard, with this system of fins, this problem disappears, gives a touch to the board between singelfin and twinfin that I adore

es
lo has dicho bien, son 2 fins paralelas de longboard. uno de los grandes problemas de las tablas con un solo fin es el ancho de la tabla en tail a 12 pulgadas, si quieres tener buen agarre, el tail tiene que ser de 14, 14.5 como mucho de ancho, de hay en adelante la quilla con el rail de la tabla pierde efectividad, de hay poner quillas tan grandes en algunos longboard, con este sistema de fins, este problema desaparece, da un tacto al board entre singelfin y twinfin que adoro
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby GeoffreyLevens » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:23 am

zensuni wrote:A surfmat might be fun in these conditions, but if you don't like side slipping, forget it

In my experience, 1-2 foot mushy wind waves to 6+ ft steep but not barrels, to 4-5 foot tubes, with practice and proper inflation for the waves, side slipping is almost completely optional on a modern surfmat. Had to be said... ;)
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby Uncle Grumpy » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:17 pm

GeoffreyLevens wrote:
zensuni wrote:A surfmat might be fun in these conditions, but if you don't like side slipping, forget it

In my experience, 1-2 foot mushy wind waves to 6+ ft steep but not barrels, to 4-5 foot tubes, with practice and proper inflation for the waves, side slipping is almost completely optional on a modern surfmat. Had to be said... ;)


Practice is the thing.
IMO Finless craft of most types require more patience and water time before their benefits become worth it.
Paipo surfer in repose,
Nose on the nose,
No grunting he-man pose.
See how fast he goes!
What is it he knows?
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:44 pm

.
Last edited by asier esnal on Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby bgreen » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:57 pm

I don't reckon you can go past: http://www.surfmats.com/

Paul posts anywhere
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:22 pm

bgreen wrote:I don't reckon you can go past: http://www.surfmats.com/

Paul posts anywhere


forgive for the inconvenience, surf mat has been a fleeting idea, I prefer the null flotation of wooden paipos. I can not assume the price you've given me, I love making my toys and try them in the water, for me it's the most fun of all

es
perdonar por las molestias, surf mat ha sido una idea fugaz, prefiero la nula flotación de los paipos de madera. no puedo asumir el precio que me has pasado, me apasiona hacer mis juguetes y probarlos en el agua, para mi es lo mas divertido de todo
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby rodndtube » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:34 pm

Dale uno con Graeme de GB. https://customsurfmats.com/ y https://www.matsurfers.com/

Give Grame a call. He will also tell you that low inflation works much better than "inflated."
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:41 pm

Does not have any model leashes? and if a very fat wave comes and you lose it? you drown? :shock: :oops:

es
no tiene ningún modelo leashes? y si viene una ola muy gorda y lo pierdes? tu te ahogas?
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby zensuni » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:45 pm

I had a krypt surf mat for 2 years, I loved it, the learning process was quite hard (that was the "side slipping" part I was referring to), but after a lot of sessions I was as confortable rinding the mat than my paipo or my bodyboard. Then the krypt mat was destroyed (my fault), I bought a 4gears flyer omni surfmat, great quality mat, but this one is slighty bigger than the krypt, so now I have to get used to again (hello again side slipping).
To my experience, mats may not look fun to watch, but are great fun to surf, it is a different glide, very subtle, kind of a "zen" thing.
The downside is that it is difficult to duck dive a surf mat effisciently, so if no channel, paddling out can be a problem (no leash). But this is partly balanced by the fact than in case of wipeout you just "bear hug" the mat, you won't get hurt.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby rodndtube » Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:51 pm

Apparently wind is more of a concern than a wave, and duck diving is not easy.

asier esnal wrote:Does not have any model leashes? and if a very fat wave comes and you lose it? you drown? :shock: :oops:

es
no tiene ningún modelo leashes? y si viene una ola muy gorda y lo pierdes? tu te ahogas?
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby zensuni » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:25 am

asier esnal wrote:You said it right, there are 2 parallel longboard fins.


I wonder how this setup would work on a paipo, and in general, how single fins work on paipo boards
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby rodndtube » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:54 am

Single fins work, I rode a single fin paipo for a long time, during the late-1960s, 1970s, until maybe mid-1980s. On the other hand, the tail was somewhat narrower that what I evolved to with 3- or 5-fin setups. My single fins usually ranged from 8 to 6 inches, going smaller over time, and now I generally use a 4.5 inch center fin with two small side bites or 4 small runners (Bonzer).
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:57 pm

zensuni wrote:
asier esnal wrote:You said it right, there are 2 parallel longboard fins.


I wonder how this setup would work on a paipo, and in general, how single fins work on paipo boards


These are the first 2 paipos I did, with the configuration of 2 fins of longboard, but as I did not have money to buy so many keels, I made them in aluminum, the behavior is somewhat slow in turns, they give the feeling of boring, very reliable and safe but boring, so move to side fins looking for more fun behavior

es
estos son los 2 primeros paipos que hice, con la configuración de 2 fins de longboard, pero como no tenia dinero para comprar tantas quillas, las hice en aluminio, el comportamiento es algo lento en giros, dan la sensación de aburridos, muy fiables y seguros pero aburridos, por eso pase a quillas laterales buscando un comportamiento mas divertido
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby rodndtube » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:07 pm

The really smart people would talk about characteristics of a fin's shape, height, base length and "rake." And where it is positioned on the board. A standard long board center fin is not conducive to easy quick turns/pivoting, so it can feel stiffer. But the fin is good for projection. Even those little knubsters, with their long bases, are conducive to helping project in one's turns, those longer arching turns.

A good center fin box where one can move a fin forward and aft also provides flexibility for adapting to varying wave conditions.
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby asier esnal » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:26 am

I have not put the measures of the keels for not extending myself in the story, since this post is oriented to the manufacture of paipo with paulownia and polyester. but if you want to comment, i do it

first I designed some fins SF-4 PC Stretch Quad Set scaled to 4.5 high, I did not like the behavior

the fins that you see in the fiber paipos are inspired by the models of windsurfing, not surfing, they work with very interesting models that I wanted to try. Before manufacturing, design different fins in 3d to understand how the forces and turbulences they generate work. From this study I drew the conclusion that the models were close to what I wanted https://www.k4fins.com/product/zbd/ https://www.k4fins.com/product/rocket-fronts-trailers/

blue paipo, height 4.5 base 4,
paipo garnet height 5.5 base 4.5
I do not know the sweep angle. the garnet is more delayed than the blue, these designs were the ones I liked the most when making the 3d but I do not remember it. delete the file


es

no he puesto las medidas de las quillas por no extenderme en el relato, ya que este post esta orientado la fabricación de paipo con paulownia y poliester. pero si quieres lo comento

primero diseñe unas quillas SF-4 PC Stretch Quad Set escaladas a 4.5 de alto, no me gusto el comportamiento

las quillas que ves en los paipos de fibra están inspiradas en los modelos de windsurf, no de surf, ellos trabajan con modelos muy interesantes que he querido probar. antes de fabricar diseñe en 3d diferentes quillas para entender el funcionamiento las fuerzas y turbulencias que generan. de este estudio saqué la conclusión que los modelos se acercaban a lo que queria https://www.k4fins.com/product/zbd/ https://www.k4fins.com/product/rocket-fronts-trailers/

paipo azul, altura 4.5 base 4,
paipo granate altura 5.5 base 4.5
no se el ángulo sweep. el granate es más retrasado que el azul, estos diseños fueron los que más me gustaron al hacer el 3d pero no lo recuerdo. borre el archivo
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Re: paulownia + polyester+ fiberglass: rocker and flex

Unread postby GeoffreyLevens » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:10 pm

As mentioned above, duck diving a mat is a bugger. BUT they have easily variable inflation. Paddle out very soft or empty (swim it out) if necessary, and get under white water no problem. Then a few puffs and ready to ride.
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