French paipo

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
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zensuni
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French paipo

#1

Unread post by zensuni »

Hi there,
I am discussing with a local shaper about a paipo board I'd like him to shape for me.
He doesn't know anything about paipo boards, so when I said that I wanted a thin board with (idealy) a low buoyancy, he was kind of suprised :D
Although he is happy to make something different than regular surfboards, so that will be an interresting experience for both of us.
As an example I sent him a photo of an Austin paipo, but I said I wanted it to be thinner with low buoyancy.
He said that a thin board wouldn't be a problem, but he would need to apply extra coats of fiberglass on the deck to give the board more solidity.
About the skegs, I'm not sure yet. I have a nice set a 2 resin made keel fins (future) from a kneeboard I have, my initial idea is to have 2 future plugs on the paipo to just mount the keels on it. What do you think about keel fins on a paipo ?

About the dimensions, I went for 110 x 50cm. My current plywood boar is 120 x 40, but it has a certain amount of flex that this resin board won't have, this is why I went a bit shorter, plus I am quite short myself.
The kind of waves I ride are beach breaks, no point breaks or reef breaks, this is also why I don't want too much buoyancy, I like easy duck dives.
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Re: French paipo

#2

Unread post by kage »

You might consider the HPD (Hawaiian Paipo Design) board. It's wide, no skeg and basically no buoyancy. Super easy duck dive.
https://paipo.com. Hmm. that doesn't look like it's working but there are links to the site somewhere around here. It's a bit different than most of the paipos people ride here - not a foam board really. I've probably ridden all the styles but i like the mini - I'm about 5'6" 150 lbs so it's a good size for small guys. Slow to take off but really fast once you are on it.
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Re: French paipo

#3

Unread post by bgreen »

Zensuni,

Does your shaper use AKU shaper or similar? If so, have a look at what the volume that results from your design.

I like a lower volume board, but have gone too low if I want to catch larger waves. The volume may have been ok for a younger guy. I also used to go very thin in the nose area, following the idea the nose doesn't do anything. What I found is that more volume (my boards have ranged from 16 to 22 litres) in the nose have made for a cleaner ride, especially bottom turning and surprisingly, easier duckdiving.

At their thickest my boards are 1 7/8".

Unless you want an advanced bodysurfing type experience, I wouldn't recommend going super thin.
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Re: French paipo

#4

Unread post by zensuni »

kage wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:46 pm You might consider the HPD (Hawaiian Paipo Design) board. It's wide, no skeg and basically no buoyancy.
I got one from the second hand market a few years ago. Super easy to catch waves with, super easy duck dives indeed, but way too wide, I could t turn it the way I wanted to. Maybe the guitar pick shape didn t fit the waves, or my riding style. In fact, I never understood the benefit of this shape. Beautiful board though.

Bob, thanks for the advices. The shaper told me the board would be thick as a shortboard, seems good to me, not to thin, not too thick.

Regarding the shape, maybe I would go for a classic bodyboard shape, with rounded corners for safety. Not sure yet.
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Re: French paipo

#5

Unread post by bgreen »

Sean Ross rides places like Cloudbreak and G-Land on a HPD, but then he rode them at Pipeline as well. For your average person, they are a great planning machine suited to long walls. Trying one recently, you need to put time into them, to get the most out of them. The sense of width took some adjusting to.

Rather than a bodyboard shape, why not have a look at Larry Goddard's design pages. I'd recommend a more standard surfboard foil rather than the full S deck. It depends on what type of wave you want to ride. Rod's pages and my Australasian BB site have lots of examples of different shapes. A BB version of a mini-simmons would be something the shaper should be familiar with.
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Re: French paipo

#6

Unread post by rodndtube »

The Austin shape is a good all around shape that I have ridden in knee high to double over head. My Checkered RPM were 1-7/8 thick and 19-7/8 wide and for me, 50 inches long. Length guidelines are up to your sternum if you want to arm and kick paddle (with swim fins). The plan shape of the Checkered RPM and the Baseline Austin are the same, only the thickness/thickness profile and width are different and the Checkered RPM tens to have a domed deck, thickest along the stringer line and thinning out towards the rails. Both have same rocker and rail profiles. And both are 3 fin setup although some people prefer it in twin fin mode. I used a small center fin, 4 to 5 inches and small side bites, about 2 inches tall, 2 to 4 inch base, varies.

If you remove 6 inches off the 50 inch length just be sure to keep the plan shape roughly the same. Austin made a short 42 inch version for a customer in Florida and it really looked more like a skim board. I might just take 6 inches out of the middle and then straighten out the lines a little to match up with the baseline shape.
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Re: French paipo

#7

Unread post by zensuni »

Rodndtube, I think you're right, a downscale version of the Austin shape without reducing the width would lead to a weird shape.
I will probably go for a basic "thumbstone" template, straight rails, rounded nose, like a mini mini simmons.
I will also go for a pretty flat bottom, only a little nose rocker, to keep as much speed as possible.
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Re: French paipo

#8

Unread post by rodndtube »

zensuni wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:33 am Rodndtube, I think you're right, a downscale version of the Austin shape without reducing the width would lead to a weird shape.
I will probably go for a basic "thumbstone" template, straight rails, rounded nose, like a mini mini simmons.
I will also go for a pretty flat bottom, only a little nose rocker, to keep as much speed as possible.
Straight parallel rails are fine for straight ahead speed. You want some curvature in the plan shape for turning. Small skegs at the rear for a Mini-Simmons style, no toe-in if no turning (just angling).
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Re: French paipo

#9

Unread post by bgreen »

I have a very low rocker fibgreglass board. As soon as a wave gets hollow it nosedives. My advice, unless only riding really full waves, a reasonable level of rocker is advisable.

Quite a while ago, there was a discussion about board length. I think Larry Goddard had advocated .7 of your height. Rod may recall the thread.

I used to ride boards with very parallel rails, as Rod says they are fast. Nowadays, I have more curve in the outline, still fast, but more versatile.
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Re: French paipo

#10

Unread post by krusher74 »

The worst thing I have found from most standup shapers having a go at a paipo is they put everything they know about standup boards into them and all those general rules don't work, so you end up with their first go/experiment and end up with a test board that's all wrong.
For example, he is already wanting you to have the volume of a standup board for your body size.

I ride 26L which would be small for me if I was a standup I would have more like 28/32.

and if he put the fins on in a typical stand-up position they will be too far back.
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Re: French paipo

#11

Unread post by rodndtube »

bgreen wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:09 pm I have a very low rocker fibgreglass board. As soon as a wave gets hollow it nosedives. My advice, unless only riding really full waves, a reasonable level of rocker is advisable.

Quite a while ago, there was a discussion about board length. I think Larry Goddard had advocated .7 of your height. Rod may recall the thread.

I used to ride boards with very parallel rails, as Rod says they are fast. Nowadays, I have more curve in the outline, still fast, but more versatile.
Larry's 70 percent of your height is right about where the board meets your sternum if both are standing. Easy enough to take a tape measure to the task. If you know your height and can do math, then it auto-translates your cm or inches in your own language!

I will also add that the 70% or sternum length is if you want to be able to both arm paddle and kick paddle at the same without your knees smashing the tail rail. Other kick paddle only, arm paddle only, ride a very short paipo (like a body gun) or a very long paipo (like an alaia).

Back to fins, I would suggest a standard two plug FCS style which will provide lots of flexibility with fin experiments, using double-plug skegs and single-plug skegs, small and large. There is a lot of skeg experimentation latitude with that plug system especially with single plugs and small fin types. You can also have two pairs of FCS plugs installed for even great variation even when using only two fins at a time. Add a center fin box for more drive in your turns and with enough latitude to move the center fins with at least 4 inches of range.
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Re: French paipo

#12

Unread post by zensuni »

The shaper has already ordered the materials (piece of foam, fins plugs, paint) after my validation so it will have to fit in 50x110 cm, witch is basically the size of a bodyboard (a bit longer, my bodyboard is 105cm long), and have two futures fins.
I will probably want a basic mini simmons shape, straight rails (not too rounded), square tail, rounded nose, flat bottom for speed but still a nose rocker to avoid nose diving. Having said that, I am counting on the fact that the board being relatively short, in a critical situation I could position backard to lift the nose a bit, like I do on my rockerless ply board which is 10cm longer (but has flex that this bellyboard probably won't have).
Looking forward to see the progress :)
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Re: French paipo

#13

Unread post by krusher74 »

If you have a bodyboard that you like I would recommend using its outline curve as a template, that's what I did with my paipo and it turns just the same as my fav bodyboard.

if the shaper put a sufboard rail on it with a hard edge then that will work with fins, if you then want to try it finless you will need to sand that hard edge into at least a 2mm round over for it to have any grip.

I can email you the CAD file of my board if you would like the shaper to have a look for ideas or have a look yourself, you just need the free version of akushaper to see it. you could see what I use for nose rocker etc.

here is a screenshot if this is of use to you
Attachments
2021-03-24 19.54.46.jpg
Last edited by krusher74 on Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: French paipo

#14

Unread post by zensuni »

krusher74 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:49 pm I can email you the CAD file of my board if you would like the shaper to have a look for ideas or have a look yourself, you just need the free version of akushaper to see it. you could see what I use for nose rocker etc.
That would be great, thanks :)
benoit.mori.merceron@ gmail .com
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Re: French paipo

#15

Unread post by zensuni »

I played around with photoshop, just wanted to reproduce the proportions of the board comparing to my size, it should be like this:
paipo3.JPG
paipo3.JPG (24.95 KiB) Viewed 914 times
paipo2.JPG
paipo2.JPG (24.56 KiB) Viewed 914 times
paipo1.JPG
paipo1.JPG (19.51 KiB) Viewed 914 times
I like the "elpaipo knee machine" shape by the way :D
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Re: French paipo

#16

Unread post by krusher74 »

zensuni wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:51 pm
krusher74 wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:49 pm I can email you the CAD file of my board if you would like the shaper to have a look for ideas or have a look yourself, you just need the free version of akushaper to see it. you could see what I use for nose rocker etc.
That would be great, thanks :)
benoit.mori.merceron@ gmail .com
email sent. :D
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Re: French paipo

#17

Unread post by zensuni »

Hi there,
My shaper finaly received the blank, after a long time.
So, he asked me to explain what board I wanted exactly so he can start working on it.
At the last moment I completely changed my mind, and choose the vintage option.
Basically I gave him this link https://mypaipoboards.org/boards/RodBds ... 1070.shtml and told him to copy this "El paipo knee machine 48" board.
The only differences will be the color (I want it red) and the fin boxes (I want 2 future fin plugs instead of 1 single plug).
I have a pair of fiberglass keel fins, I will use it.
But for the rest, he will stick to the original dimensions, no rocker, just a nose lift.
I expect to ride it as a prone board and as a kneeboard (will see).
The shaper is quite excited to shape such an "exotic" board.
I am excited too to get it and test it. Not sure it is a reasonnable choice, but I just love the look of this board :D .
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Re: French paipo

#18

Unread post by bgreen »

I'd get some tail rocker in it. I have a board without and definitely, time over again, have got tail rocker to prevent nose diving.
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Re: French paipo

#19

Unread post by zensuni »

bgreen wrote: Sat May 22, 2021 8:23 pm I'd get some tail rocker in it. I have a board without and definitely, time over again, have got tail rocker to prevent nose diving.
Hi Bob, do you mean a tail lift (like on the nose) or a proggressive rocker ?
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Re: French paipo

#20

Unread post by rodndtube »

I wouldn't be too concerned about lack of tail rocker. The El Paipo spec is 4 inches shorter than a similar board I had in the 1960s and 1970s, and pearl diving was never an issue.
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