MyPaipoBoards Forums

Not hand made ones but fully commercial ones ? Were there ever any ?
Does the BELLYBOGGER count ?

Not sure what you mean by "commercial" but not hand made ones. Do you mean built in production quantities for sale as well as built by hand (e.g., many of the non-machine made surfboards at your local surf shop)? Or do you mean assembly line built such as the pop-outs of yesteryear and the machined boards from China?

The answer is all of the above, plus home-made and school shop made.

We are slowly working on a list of paipo builders (see http://mypaipoboards.org/builders/Paipo_Builders.shtml and click on the on the Google Docs Spreadsheet). Others have posted scanned magazine pages for paipo builders in the old forum. There are several references to different kinds of "builds" in the paipo interviews and you will see more in the Paipo Magazines section of the MyPaipoBoards.org site. At the bottom of the MyPaipoBoards site is a listing of current paipo board builders that covers most of the known universe (please let me know of any that are missing).

I was meaning paipos that are built by a paipo company and not a surfboard factory that dabbles in other craft. I was just wondering if anyone had started a business just to build paipos?
I'll check out the link, thanks for that !
Does the Belly Bogger pass as a paipo ?

Hawaiian Paipo Designs - HPD?

In the 1960s there were a few: El Paipo, Newport Paipo and House of Paipo come to mind. Maybe Paipo Nui. There are some contemporary builders that meet your criteria like HPD and the UK builders of "traditional surfboards." Some of the contemporary wood builders make paipos of one kind or another but I really can't say how their product base is divided up. Then there are the surf board builders or shapers that build enough paipos to be considered a significant part of their product line and are advertised as such (e.g., Austin Surfboards).

ULTIMATS wrote:I was meaning paipos that are built by a paipo company and not a surfboard factory that dabbles in other craft. I was just wondering if anyone had started a business just to build paipos?
I'll check out the link, thanks for that !
Does the Belly Bogger pass as a paipo ?

The Belly Bogger certainly qualifies as being a member of the genus bodyboard.

I could do you one but you wouldn't like the price.

Hey Puuri, where are you in Sydney ?, Ive moved from Qld to W.A. and now back to Manly.

rodndtube wrote:Maybe Paipo Nui. There are some contemporary builders that meet your criteria like HPD and the UK builders of "traditional surfboards.

Well if you're gonna include Val Valentine's Paipo Nui then you should also include Aussie Jamie Farfor's boards. Interesting essay by Jamie on his production of the "guitar pick" style of paipo here:

http://www.surfresearch.com.au/00000193.html

I had a picture up on the old forum of an early wood example of that shape from the 1930's. I'll try and find the picture.

Paipo Jim wrote:

rodndtube wrote:Maybe Paipo Nui. There are some contemporary builders that meet your criteria like HPD and the UK builders of "traditional surfboards.

Well if you're gonna include Val Valentine's Paipo Nui then you should also include Aussie Jamie Farfor's boards. Interesting essay by Jamie on his production of the "guitar pick" style of paipo here:

http://www.surfresearch.com.au/00000193.html

I had a picture up on the old forum of an early wood example of that shape from the 1930's. I'll try and find the picture.

Good pick up, PaipoJim. Yes, there are some others I left off the list. The old forum is still up but it may take some poking about. The best way to search the old forums is by using a search term limited to a domain (the old forum is hosted at rodndtube.com and you might be able to do further limit it to rodndtube.com\paipo\forum\)

ULTIMATS wrote:Hey Puuri, where are you in Sydney ?, Ive moved from Qld to W.A. and now back to Manly.

On the hill overlooking Coogee. Read the interviews on Dr Barry Hutchins for an overview and pics and Goddard for the theory. For a performance overview many years ago I surfed outside Shark Island and Voodoo on my model from Barry but have incorporated a few refinements since.

Paipo Nui & HPD were commercial enterprises. HPD is still going. Gus Acosta makes his Wave Arrows. Austin keeps Rod in paipos.

For Australia & historical material see http://home.brisnet.org.au/~bgreen/bgpage/

In Oz Dick Ash of bellybogger fame was probably the largest scale. Jamie Farfor (has supplied me a fair bit of info but hasn't wanted to do an interview) and Leigh Tingle made boards on a commercial scale (briefly). Barry Hutchins & Robert Hoskins made boards on a local scale. Ken Fowler of Blue Pacific Aquatic Products made WhizSkids. Anyone else - I'd be interested to hear.

Bob

Austin Saunders has made 200+ paipos over the past 3 years so these boards are very much part of his product line. Austin also advertises paipo boards on his website along with other vertical surfing models. So, definitely one of the hybrid producers. Several of the mainstream board builders of the 1960s capitalized on the market for paipos until the boogie boards took over -- many of these companies advertised paipos/bellyboards in the mainstream surf magazines along side their vertical surfing models.

rodndtube wrote:

ULTIMATS wrote:I was meaning paipos that are built by a paipo company and not a surfboard factory that dabbles in other craft. I was just wondering if anyone had started a business just to build paipos?
I'll check out the link, thanks for that !
Does the Belly Bogger pass as a paipo ?

The Belly Bogger certainly qualifies as being a member of the genus bodyboard.

Why the genus Bodyboard ? The Belly bogger was hard plastic, no foam, why Bodyboard and not Paipo ?
No grief intended just asking. Thanks.

ULTIMATS wrote:

rodndtube wrote:

ULTIMATS wrote:I was meaning paipos that are built by a paipo company and not a surfboard factory that dabbles in other craft. I was just wondering if anyone had started a business just to build paipos?
I'll check out the link, thanks for that !
Does the Belly Bogger pass as a paipo ?

The Belly Bogger certainly qualifies as being a member of the genus bodyboard.

Why the genus Bodyboard ? The Belly bogger was hard plastic, no foam, why Bodyboard and not Paipo ?
No grief intended just asking. Thanks.

Semantics?
For discussion purposes: genus
1. Biology. A taxonomic category ranking below a family and above a species and generally consisting of a group of species exhibiting similar characteristics. In taxonomic nomenclature the genus name is used, either alone or followed by a Latin adjective or epithet, to form the name of a species. See Table at taxonomy.
2. Logic. A class of objects divided into subordinate species having certain common attributes.
3. A class, group, or kind with common attributes.

Belly board, paipo, boogie board, and bodyboard are nearly interchangeable terms. Many other terms have been used in different parts of the world at different times. Even the term "surf board" has been used in discussing belly boards/paipos/bodyboards. For any number of reasons the terms paipo and belly board are probably indistinguishable. A boogie board is well understood to be a primarily prone riding style of board invented by Tom Morey back in 1971, made of a soft foam. Nowadays these boogie boards are commonly known as body boards and there was once a print magazine called bodyboard, but never to be confused with bellyboards/paipos.

Regardless, a bodyboard is the general description of a board ridden with the body on it, designed to be ridden primarily prone-style. Complementary to the genus body board would be the other genuses, shortboard and longboard, both ridden in the standing position. Let us now forget kneeboards! Ha! Did the ancient Hawaiians ride alaia or paipo when riding on their knees, or sitting for that matter!?

Very often the debate begins to focus on the materials used to make the board, e.g., wood vs. foam/fiberglass/resin. But that argument rapidly breaks down especially in contemporary days when people ride short and long boards made of wood of every type of plan shape.

So to answer your question, a belly bogger is no doubt in the genus bodyboard of the type called a bellyboard or paipo -- it is not the type called boogie board.

rodndtube wrote: For any number of reasons the terms paipo and belly board are probably indistinguishable.

Not to me they aren't. This distinction was what was actually prevalent in the 1960's: A paipo is thin and skegless. A bellyboard is like the Austin that you ride. Thick and foamy with fins sticking out the bottom.

The term "bodyboard" is just a marketing wheeze made up by the other makers of boogie boards besides Tom Morey in order to distinguish themselves from his products and not infringe on his trademark.

Hope this helps!

make a true paipo for yourself out of wood you will be much rewarded and not have to buy one of those so called bellyboards with the fins sticking down to slow you down

Paipo Jim wrote:

rodndtube wrote: For any number of reasons the terms paipo and belly board are probably indistinguishable.

Not to me they aren't. This distinction was what was actually prevalent in the 1960's: A paipo is thin and skegless. A bellyboard is like the Austin that you ride. Thick and foamy with fins sticking out the bottom.

The term "bodyboard" is just a marketing wheeze made up by the other makers of boogie boards besides Tom Morey in order to distinguish themselves from his products and not infringe on his trademark.

Hope this helps!

A couple of things that throw a monkey wrench into keeping that clear and distinct:
A note by John Clark that accompanies the two images shown below (also on the MyPaipoBoards home page), "Wally made his first Hawaiian Pai Po Board in December 1955, but he didn't like the way it rode. He re-designed it early in 1956 and applied for a patent on it on May 9, 1956. The decal was used only on his paipo boards, not on his surfboards. Wally and many other Waikiki surfers from the early 1900s, especially native Hawaiians, used the term paipo to mean both bodysurfing and bodyboarding." Source: John Clark e-mails of June 2009.
More, "Froiseth sold some of his boards to surfers from California, which helped to introduce the word and its spelling outside of Hawai`i, and today paipo is the accepted term for wooden bodyboards." At that point the term paipo went on to signify all forms of bellyboards/bodyboards until the advent of the boogie board.

The term "bodyboard" has been around for quite some time.... at least before the invention of the boogie board and subsequent use of the term "bodyboard" as you mentioned above (to skirt trademark infringements). Source: Finney, Ben R. 1959. Hawaiian surfing, a study of cultural change.

The literal translation of pae po`o is "ride [a wave] head-first", or in other words, bodysurf, and a papa pae po`o was a bodysurfing board, or what surfers today call a bodyboard. [Clark, John R. K. 2011. Hawaiian surfing: traditions from the past. Honolulu: University of Hawaiʻi Press.]

We are plagued by history and how language has been adapted and changed over time. For example, two UK companies:
http://traditionalsurfing.co.uk/
http://www.originalsurfboards.co.uk/

Regardless, it is all fun

I think a reasonable argument can be made for the bellybogger being considered a paipo:

1) prototypes pre-dated the Morey boogie board

2) despite the rotomoulding its origins are in paipo boards & other boards of Dicks I have seen photos suggest a strong paipo interest

3) not high on flotation

4) it has fins (not a defining feature of paipo but suggesting the bellybogger is not just a bodyboard by another name)

5) Dick Ash's philosophy is paipo rather than boogie board.

Bob

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