1 November 2022
https://www.facebook.com/groups/4890771 ... 736355218/
Looks like it would be real fun to ride
Michael Carpenter
Made one with similar tail seemed to dig in on bottom turns and lose speed put a few layers of glass over the tail back to a square tail got me drive back
Charlie Straumietis
I had a kneeboard made with a tail like that (only not as wide - more like a fishtail) back in the 70's - only the points were much sharper. Called it a hook tail. Cut my eyebrow on one wipeout and ripped my flippers to shreds when taking off and hopping to the kneeling position. The flippers kept catching the sharp points. Suffice to say the experiment wasn't worth it and I went onto to better designs like concaves and keel fins...
Kenny Stapleton
hi Charles, doing my rehab thank Christ I only done one , I don’t know how you did two your tuffer then me old mate , yes on looking at that design I could see the pitfalls I just thought it gives you the freedom to really use the full thrust from your legs / flippers but definitely see what your saying , hope alls going ok mate
Charlie Straumietis
- it'd be ok on a boogie/paipo board - not so on a narrower fiberglass fish tail. Hope your rehab goes well. You have to give it a good crack. Push through the pain - it'll pay off in the long run. I had bone on bone on both knees - I didn't see the point of rehabbing with one knee still crook and going thru it all again 12 months later. So I bit the bullet. The first 3 days were brutal.
Damian Coase
Yes it looks like a standard foiling board to me. Something that may be of interest is that I spoke to a good local foiler when designing my flex tail board for bigger bumpier waves. One of their main problems is that when the wing hits the surface of the water the board stops dead and nose dives so they have a pronounced domed v in the nose to counteract this. We tried something similar in the flex tail to cut through the chop. It sure is a smooth rider.
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Rod Treece
https://www.facebook.com/groups/paipobe ... 042640080/
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One issue I have is now that i'm laying down I'm finding it not much fun to surf when it bumpy and junky. My board has alot of floatation so here is my question:
Would it be better on those days to ride a much small Paipo where I would be laying in the water more?
Keith Usher
Your shoulder is your shock absorber on a prone craft, for the same reasons that you struggle to pop up anymore, you may also, unfortunately, struggle to take the bump out of a wave. I would think being more submerged in the wave may help you to stay in contact with the face and cut through the bump, rather than be on top of the wave and every bump be a small ramp launching you off the wave. I would try surface area over flotation.
Bill Wurts
Another option might be to build a board with a 0.5”-1.0”, impact absorbing foam deck pad. Maybe 4-6 pcf EVA or XLPE — closed cell. I plan to try a 0.5”, 6-pcf EVA or XLPE deck pad on my next build to ease impact on my ribs and sternum.
Alan Bruce
You could always try a mat.
Rod Treece
The condition in my area IMHO are not that great for matting unless you don't mind a crowd. I normally save my Matt for Baja where there are longer point waves.
Alan Bruce
so the cure for lumps & bumps is Convex bottom & extra weight in the board - heavier glassing. These have obvious drawbacks though. Board will be slower without a concave & not as responsive from that & the extra weight. It's a tricky thing.
I ride & shape kneeboards, paipo's, surfboards & mals. Even on your knees, bumpy waves are a challenge compared to standing on a board. With my Kneelo's I just surf my heavier boards when there's size in the swell.
John Morris
Greenough went to the so-called edge board in part to deal with bump, combining a central planing hull with convex displacement style rails. I believe he retained the flex and ultra low flotation aspects of his earlier designs. I never closely examined one, but it's an intriguing concept for prone riding.
51 w51 weeks ago
Alan Bruce
it was to reduce the planing area, improve the rail shape & to introduce an edge to improve hold when in the barrel. Cushioning for bumpy conditions may have been involved but I'd never heard or read that before.
Sharkboy Bellyboards
Try a neutral buoyancy board with lots of flex and it will absorb all those bumps
Stephen Newbegin
Or check out earlier posts pictures here where I enjoy all the bouncing in a tube but keep control with a soft top board with a three fin thruster configuration with very high float cushion under my body. All these choices mean you can pick from your increased paipo quiver like a golfer picking his iron depending ....so fun.
`Speaking of bumpy conditions for paipo riding I had the coolest experience the other day during the changing vertical tides here. A large set of multiple 3-4 foot wind waves closed out for almost everyone inside. Because of all the water pushing in over the reef, it made an even bigger wave peak inside further than the earlier close outs. I took a great right with no bumps but the whole section was bubbling white over the whole face for the whole ride due to the left over suds. It was like a smooth but bubbling white champagne like steep face. I was sure celebrating for joy after that. I would have never got this wave as a surfer or kneeboarder even having been riding waves for over 60 years.
Larry O'Brien
Does your board have a lot of concave on the bottom?
Rod Treece
YES
Larry O'Brien
That's a big YES. Are there concave(s) the full length of the bottom?
John Morris
I've dealt with this. Even if you elevate your torso to absorb shock through your arms, your mid section/pelvis is still pressing down on the tail. On my early attempts at paipo riding (after ~60 years standing) the nose would flap in chop making it hard to get the rail in. I've dropped length, gone narrower and thinner plus subtly increased belly forward and vee in the tail. Fall conditions will tell me if my newest board deals better with bump on the face. I'm down to 4'11 by 20 1/2" by 2" thick with a concave deck with shock absorbing pad. Also, I think it's pretty universal that the deeper in the pocket you ride the smoother the face.
John Dixson
Hi Rod I find a 12mm ply paipo doesn’t bounce around as much as a foam glass board, and I don’t suffer sore chest as much but you fall down the pecking order a bit.
Damian Coase
Don Boland and I have struggled with this at a couple of offshore reef waves we rise. The path so far is to have a heavier board, in our case PU versus Epoxy, and use vee in the nose. George Greenough was way ahead of his time and advocated an edge bottom, with nose vee, on his spoons and sailboards to help with chop. Try and get a copy of Andrew Kidmans excellent book/video called "On the edge of a dream ". My wave size limit is about 6 foot these days but Don still charges 10 foot monsters.
Steven Halpin
I find the English style bellyboard actually works best in lumpy crap surf, a gamechanger and fast as hell
Thomas Patrick Surfboards
I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about what I call the “skipping stone” phenomenon and how to counter it. About 7 years ago actually designed a prone board with a deep v-to-flat bottom, but never built it. Long discussions on the MyPaipo forum led me to abandon this design. Then, I came across a video of a bodyboard rider on a wave taken from beneath the surface of the wave. It was clear from the video that only about the last 1/2 to 1/3 of the tail was in contact with the water (that and the rider’s thighs). Back to the drawing board…
I also once built a prone board using a tri-plane hull design, specifically for California winter waves. It rode very smoothly, i.e., no “skipping stone” if I could control my speed. I named that board the “Manta” because of its horned outline shape. Likewise, I built a couple of “Hull-style” displacement prone boards but never got a chance to ride them. One was a single fin a la Greenough, and the other was a 2+1 if memory serves me. Ride reports for both echoed the “smooth, cruise-y” feel in larger waves. So, for larger waves, switching from a planning-hull to a displacement-hull might be the way to go.
John Morris
By 'bodyboard' you mean the soft foamie ala Morey Boogie, yes? Those are flat, flexy, and typically floatier than a paipo of similar dimensions. Plus they're generally ridden around 24 inches shorter than the rider's height, from my observation. With that much of the rider's body in the water, the body's (knees, shins and flippers) effect needs to be taken into consideration. You don't mention any dimensions in your comment, but I wonder how transferable the ride characteristics of a bodyboard are to paipos? When it gets much overhead and bumpy I've switched to a body (boogie) board in the past. Hoping to stay with a 4'11" paipo this year.
Keith Usher
the dimensions of a bodyboard transfer perfectly to a paipo, my paipo template was made by just drawing round my fav bodyboard.
John Morris
Did you surf standing in the past? I think that experience lends itself to prone boards that come closer (within 18") to the rider's height.
Rod Treece
Thanks Thomas, This is only for smaller junky waves. For biger waves I only go out when it's clean and ride my "Screamer"
Don Boland
Damian and I were talking yesterday about how many surfs a week we have on average (probably 4 or 5 a week) we are constantly observing and discussing performance and design in whatever ever conditions we have encountered.
We both have quivers and a selection of fins.We are fortunate to have eyes on us regularly I would also mention my Shaper Darren Burge he is mostly in the water when I am surfing so we are pretty lucky in that regard .
There is previous post on design by Thomas Haugh which seemed pretty logical in my opinion.After that it’s up to the surfer to make use of the various design features of their particular craft