Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
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Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#1

Unread post by rodndtube »

Shown below is Dr. Robert's newest in a line of Bonzer paipos, the Sefiroth.
Shaper / Broom-man / Shaman: M. Campbell
Paint job: J. Campbell

He will post more info about the board later.
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#2

Unread post by nomastomas »

Very interesting! I was just thinking about my next paipo experiment, and was considering a shrunk-down (4-6 to 5-0) version of my mini-Simmons shape. For me, the idea would be to reduce drag as much as possible in the shortest length possible. Getting the rider's legs out of the water should really reduce drag and increase speed. Question in my mind is "how small of a turning radius is possible given length and straightness of the rail-line, and how difficult it will be to shift weight fore and aft while prone". Maybe it won't be a problem? I bet it will just fly down the line and carve drawn-out turns. Maybe more Pitas Pt. than Oxnard Shores? Will he arm-paddle, kick-paddle or both? I can't wait to hear the ride report.
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#3

Unread post by krusher74 »

Looks great 8-)

Whats the design n the bottom? or should I know! :?
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#4

Unread post by jbw4600 »

Looks good. I am planning on building a longer board for the winter to see I can a little quicker take off on larger waves.

Rod, Tell us about your new Bonzer.
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#5

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

I think those "old school" boards w/ the hand grab bar across nose may have been set up as way to get more leverage to power turns on stiffer boards like that. Should be able to get into wave a lot earlier I would think and maintain speed through flats etc much better.
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#6

Unread post by dr robert »

Hiya all,

First off , I haven't taken possession of the Sefiroth model yet, so no personal ride report.

That will change in a couple weeks…however Malcolm has ridden it (at Oxnard Shores btw), and had a jolly good time.

This board is an almost replica of my other 5ft Bonzer which was described in the 2nd interview I did , along with Malcolm,on this site about 3 years ago.
Should you wish you can check it out and find dimensions, photos, theory, and ride characteristics from that time frame.

I have been riding that one, my 4'6" Bonzer, and my 3" 10"Gordon Theisz/Calhoun ever since about 3x's weekly on average, and so have a feel for them all.

The 5ft board has been ridden almost exclusively without the center fin in my local Central Coast area, Big Sur, Santa Cruz, the Ranch, Rincon, Refugio, El Cap, Silver Strand, Pitas, Mandos!, San Diego, Stables,Silver Strand, etc, etc…if there is a flaw in it, I can't find it yet.
I do put the center fin in with larger, heavy stuff upon occasion and find it more than satisfactory…however, I am addicted to the high speed lateral drift, and the off the board riding sensations that the essentially small 4 fin Bonzer, and very importantly, the use of the handle permits.

Versatile from 6" to 8ft (my realistic limit) I continue to be stoked!

The changes made on this new one were primarily the result of surfing with, talking, and watching Jeff Quam riding some of his boards that particularly included a full bottom concave model that he and Donny Brink worked on.
Especially during one session in hollow "Spot X "5ft beauties, I could see how his board allowed him to be "lifted up" back into the barrel/curl line, especially when coming around the corner into the critical part of the wave.
This is the result of the full bottom concave, the leverage force of the handle, and the fact that he is a very good surfer!

So, the new one incorporates a bell shaped slight concave on the bottom, leading into the Bonzer double barreled concave system to see how that works…which btw, was how the original Bonzers started out.
Additionally, we gave the template a bit more curve to see what's up , if anything,with turning radius changes.

I am a 'control" type surfer, meaning that board speed is equal to both creativity, safety and fun!
These boards do it for me!

I'll check in with a report on the new one after a few surfs…and,

Thomas: it ain't a "Mini Sims", the template and rails come directly from Wally Froiseth who pioneered this essential board design starting in 1948,, and there is zero problem (for me) in pivoting on a dime; the weight shifting is a non issue…take a look at Jeff Quams clips in the interview I did with him, the short clips of me in the S.Simeon Paipopalooza post from 2 years back, and look closely at the Spyder Wills photos in the most recent Surfer Journal…you will see a close relationship to the utility of the handle in maximizing the board rail line and turning capability as a result of quickly and appropriately redistributing, leverage, body weight and position. As you know, one does not ever just ride forward, or back on any board…you always adjust to the demands of the wave, and the performance capabilities of the craft you are riding.

Krusher: the Sefiroth is integral to the Jewish mystic discipline of Kabbalah… look it up mate , and yes…you should know!

Mr Levens: I think the original intent of the handle was to hold onto the damn board duck diving,going through soup etc…the unintended consequence was the maximization of turning force which is applicable to any style of prone board…IMHO.

Peace to all, and surf on!
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#7

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

Dr. Robert, thank you! That was a fascinating post, great reading. I have been interested in the handles for quite awhile and never gotten around to trying one. I do think that now the hook is set :) So a question:

Do you know a formula you can share for determining handle fore/aft placement? Also, curious if you think that might have to be changed if putting handle on a board w/ a squared off nose, the way they are done on bodyboards and some surfboards?

Thanks again.
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#8

Unread post by krusher74 »

GeoffreyLevens wrote:Dr. Robert, thank you! That was a fascinating post, great reading. I have been interested in the handles for quite awhile and never gotten around to trying one. I do think that now the hook is set :) So a question:

Do you know a formula you can share for determining handle fore/aft placement? Also, curious if you think that might have to be changed if putting handle on a board w/ a squared off nose, the way they are done on bodyboards and some surfboards?

Thanks again.
Yes the handle position is interesting, I would feel very stretched out on a 5 foot board, so I wonder if with the handle the reach to the handle become similar to that n the reach to the nose on my usual 3'9" board :?
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#9

Unread post by dr robert »

Yo Mr. Levens and Krusher!

Regarding handle placement, I took my cue from the Theisz/Calhoun board as the baseline and just figured out the ratio of board length to handle location as a percentage, and applied it to my 4'6" and 5'0" boards.

As in:
the 3'10" Theisz/Calhoun baseline board is 46" long…the handle is placed 7.25" from the nose to the leading base of the handle on the deck…which equals about 15.8% of board length (15.8 x .46= 7.26").

So using that same ratio,with the 5ft board at 60", the handle is placed 9.5' from the nose ( 9.5" divided by .60=15.8%).

Likewise the 4'6" board at 54" has a handle placement at 8.5" from the nose.

There well may be other placements formulas that are effective; in my case I am following the Froiseth formula, as interpreted by Gordon Theisz and Candy Calhoun on the board shaped by Gordon in 1980 that got me started on this paipo magical mystery tour in the first place.

So far, it seems about right, and Malcolm has followed this ratio with the approximately 12 other Bonzer paipo's he has shaped since we started…response has been "almost" 100% very good, with some of those boards going to long time paipo people like Art Brewer, and Jeff Quam who came out of the same surfing era, location, and paipo influence as Gordon and Candy.

I am not aesthetically stoked with the look of the handles…makes the boards look a little clunky to me…but I am convinced it provides a distinct advantage to the performance capabilities,and possibilities, of the paipo experience versus not having one; it's a classic form following function in my book!

As always with this kind of stuff, open your mind…the board will follow!
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#10

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

If it works it works! I bet something could be done to make the handles look more aesthetic. Don't know what but something...
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#11

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

And thanks for the info on placement!
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#12

Unread post by rodndtube »

Do I detect some "handle envy" there, Dr. Robert? It looks like Paul Witzig has a handle on things!

Over the years I must have seen at least a half dozen types of handles on paipo boards. It would appear that the Froiseth handle is the most popular.
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#13

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

I have seen those in photos before and my first thought was that you could really damage yourself on them in a full rinse cycle wipe out. Second thought was, "Keep the ladies off my handles!" :twisted: :lol:
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#14

Unread post by dr robert »

Rod,

the Witzig thing is pure insanity.

You may remember that I'm Australian born and raised…as such I know from experience that

this hugely funny thing is the result of a few tooo many at the pub and an idea that seemed sooo good at the time…yahh, good on ya' mate!

On the other hand,the Froiseth handle has stood the test of time…if he started in 1948' or so with this design, then we are looking at 65 years worth of riding and tweaking by various and sundry.

But, today in 2014 here we are utilizing the same basic concepts.

These things don't last unless they work.

For God's sake man…get a grip!
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#15

Unread post by krusher74 »

I was looking at it from the angle of ergonomics, of the torso /arm length , dictating the distant the handle was from the tail

For EG you get a 5ft board and a 4ft and use that 15.8% back from the nose, now get a 5ft and 6ft guy to ride them :? , I would work it out as handle distance from the tail dictated my rider size.

but it all works one way or another ;)
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#16

Unread post by dr robert »

Krusher

the ergonomic side may be appropriate…

but I personally look at it more so from the place where maximum performance efficiency will occur on the board, regardless of rider size.

similar to the "sweet spot' on any given stand up board, I think there is a specific handle placement location on any given paipo that will allow the best use of the leverage capabilities (think Archimedes) that the handle adds to whatever else that board has to offer.

the formula mentioned seems to work from 3'10 to 5'0"…regardless of rider size, and for the record, I'm 6'3" ish and in the 215-220 pound range, a larger than average surfer.

again, I'm coming from primarily duplicating a 60+ years design model…that I believe has stood the test of time for the basic reason that it works.

the addition of the Bonzer system, and the different tweaking that I'm doing are trying to improve an essentially great thing, but I think it's important to experience the baseline design first for a decent length of time before playing around with it.

and from that point, who knows!
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#17

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

Don't know if it would work as well, but seems like you could make quite serviceable handle out of some thick(ish) nylon wrapped poly cord. Sort of a macramé deal and attach it using 2 leash plugs installed up front. If it were tight enough, and woven so somewhat stiff, might look good and pose less danger to your face.
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#18

Unread post by dr robert »

Mr Levens…probably would work, I think it would need a lot of strength as it would need to be a stationary object on the board to maximize leverage.

Do not know where the idea comes from that the handle is a specific hazard to your physical well being as opposed to any other part of your board…it isn't.

Life is not without its hazards.
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#19

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens »

Sort of an answer to Surffoils post in another thread mentioning losing eyes, teeth, etc to handle impact. "rope" version would be very strong as single strand I think something like 600 lb test or more --- probably 3 running lengths then spiral wrap, dependent upon how many times could stuff the cord under the little bar in the leash cup.

I have a teeny "bodyboard" 21" long (sourced by Nels) that I am planning to make one for. No ride reports yet but will post when I do it. Likely won't ride mine until March but waiting on report from Nels who got one as well. Sort of a megamonster handplane or micromini bodyboard/paipo
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Re: Dr. Robert's Sefiroth Bonzer Paipo

#20

Unread post by bgreen »

I've ridden Nofins with rope handles. You just have to be careful sometimes when wiping out to let go to avoid twisting your wrist/thumb. Otherwise no problems.
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