T-Belly Gen 4x

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
GeoffreyLevens
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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:16 am

Rod, I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth but I think he meant to compare all 3 of your diagrams as "normal rail" to this i.e. "chine rail"

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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by rodndtube » Fri Oct 28, 2016 11:23 am

My read was inconclusive as to the "standard" rail type being compared and whether or not that standard was throughout the entire length of the rail. The behaviors of the "standard" rail types vary widely.
P. S. The chine is also in the figure I posted but need to scroll down.
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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by CHRISPI » Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:34 pm

I don’t understand Slab sided boards, in nature and in engineering nothing that works in water finishes without a taper??The explanation I get is to slid a wing profile side ways ??

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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by krusher74 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:10 am

GeoffreyLevens wrote:Rod, I don't want to put words in someone else's mouth but I think he meant to compare all 3 of your diagrams as "normal rail" to this i.e. "chine rail"

Image
Yes, that's basically what I meant. (i'm only talking about the back 3rd of the rail as this is what i'm bottom turning of and finding the loose vs locked in difference.

My "normal rail" is a tucked performance shortboard rail (although maybe of a higher volume for the boards size)

And my chine rail is an extreme bottom chine, just round over into deck of board.

Here is a pic , (my scale is off thought so the bottom rail is drawn to big try to imagine them at the same board thickness) :(

Bodyboards having hard edges everywhere should release water and have poor hold, but they dont so what's going on there? Maybe I should e-mail tom morey.
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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by rodndtube » Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:01 am

If I am reading you correctly the rail holding issue is with turning and not holding a line on a steep wave face. Maybe that has something to do with the geometry of the rail to the wave face if you are turning on the rail (on a finless board) which would become more exaggerated for a thick rail board with lots of float. If I am visualizing this correctly a hard rail turn with a hard surfboard rail on the steep wave face a person is virtually turning on the top side of the board and not the "hard" edge of the rail whereas the 50-50 rail would have an edge in the wave face.
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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by krusher74 » Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:45 am

rodndtube wrote:If I am reading you correctly the rail holding issue is with turning and not holding a line on a steep wave face. Maybe that has something to do with the geometry of the rail to the wave face if you are turning on the rail (on a finless board) which would become more exaggerated for a thick rail board with lots of float. If I am visualizing this correctly a hard rail turn with a hard surfboard rail on the steep wave face a person is virtually turning on the top side of the board and not the "hard" edge of the rail whereas the 50-50 rail would have an edge in the wave face.
just holding a line you can't feel much difference, but once bottom turning hard,(on take off or along the wave) you ask the rail for grip and that's when the difference is apparent. Mayye you are right and what happening is it's using the top edge of the rail.
So its not a chine rail, it a flat faced up rail. :?

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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by nomastomas » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:22 pm

Here's a photo of one of my New England customers getting the most out of his G4. This one is a twin-fin, but he just ordered a G4 3" shorter and with Quad-fins. This is a prime example of one the values of CNC shaping. I was able to shorten the length, while keeping the same outline in the rear-half of the board. The shortened length required a 1-1/2" wider nose than the 46 in order to maintain a similar outline curve. I added 1/8" thickness to maintain the same volume (19L), but retained all of the same bottom contours.
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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by bgreen » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:02 am

It will be interesting to hear what the guy thinks of the twin vs the quad.

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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by nomastomas » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:15 pm

The single, most frequent comment I get from new G4 riders is how fast the board is compared to whatever else they have ridden. I believe that this speed (in most cases) comes from being able to harness the power of the wave that exists in the upper third of the wave face',i.e. maintaining a high line. As I have often stated, I believe that maintaining a high line is directly related to the use of fins, with fin size as the defining variable. I always recommend a quad set-up because it allows a wide range of fin area that can be adjusted to match rider weight and specific wave size. But often times, my customers are convinced that they only need a twin-fin board. And, choosing standard LB side-bites doesn't help. This particular customer is a case in point. He started with 3.7x3.5 side-bites and found that he was side-slipping a bit in critical parts of the wave. I encourage him to increase the fin size to 4.5 deep which helped a lot. Then, after gaining some experience with the shape, he decided to move to a shorter length, and a quad set-up. I recommended 4" front fins and 3.7" rear fins for his weight (165lb in wetsuit) and for waves like the one pictured above. A rider whose weight is under 150lb can get away with a twin-fin G4, as long as they use fins that are 4' or bigger. I have a few female customers that fall into this category.
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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by bgreen » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:01 pm

Nomatomas,

I'll try to start a new thread on what I reckon some of my boards do best I haven't had a problem keeping a high line with finless boards, I have had some issues with low volume boards having less stability when there is turbulence or push from white water.


Bob

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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by nomastomas » Mon Apr 24, 2017 2:26 pm

bgreen wrote:It will be interesting to hear what the guy thinks of the twin vs the quad.
Customer Tim wrote "Peaky waist to chest this morning-I like more drive and maneuverability of quad-43 not too short!"
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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by rodndtube » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:05 pm

Is that board 43 inches or 4 ft. 3 in.? Looks like a happy rider :)
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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by nomastomas » Mon Apr 24, 2017 3:07 pm

43"
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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by bgreen » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:26 pm

Thanks. How thick is the board? Sorry if it is posted elsewhere, I'm getting lazy.

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Re: T-Belly Gen 4x

Unread post by nomastomas » Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:30 pm

concave on deck and bottom, so..
centerline 1.75" at center
2" in from outline 2" thick at center
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