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There's never going to be a consensus about fins until everybody has the same manufactured feet...and I hope that never happens.

We tend to makes things more complicated than they need to be sometimes, at least I can. Something to do with being around a long time, maybe. Play with ideas. Remember a few years ago when Greg Deets brought back the UDT? The hip thing was to do Greenough mods to the actual fins. I watched that era and while it had some practicality I suppose ...I figured I wasn't going to make anything better by doing it in my complete ignorance, but then I wasn't suffering from anything either.

The two waves which I recall nomastomas mentioning are both rock cobble and/or debris strewn points, which can be real bears to get into at anything other than high tide. He puts fins on in the water, which means barefooting on slick or barnacle/sealife encrusted rocks. One place used to have rocks mixed with some construction debris lining the shore in an attempt to control erosion. Oh the glory days of knowing where to avoid the broken concrete with foot-long rusty rebar impalers sticking out. So having some kind of bootie makes sense. Without sacrificing comfort.

Many of the new fins that have come out since the Churchill patent expired (and some earlier) have traction molded onto the bottom for stabilizing entry and exit. The bottom of the heel is still exposed but it's a 50% improvement at least. But you can't back into water at a rocky break and longer fins are still hard to front-step in.

Keith, maybe the bodyboarding chaps in your part of the world are seamless with any swim fin, but that isn't really the case as I see it in the USA and Hawaii. Having said that, it is true that critical discussions of swim fins are less prevalent in the bodyboarding world. "They look cool and go great for me" isn't part of a critical discussion and that is usually what you will read on the bodyboarding-focused forums -- demographics also come into play (age and texting-oriented writing). Demographics are also a factor on the paipo forums where most of the population tends to be middle-aged and older... we are more "cranky" when it comes to our feet, ankles, knees and legs, are feet tend to flatten out and widen with age and cold water/blood circulation makes us older guys more particular.

The same can be said about the kneeboarding world. Now, looking back to when I was a teenager surfing in Puerto Rico in the late-1960s, about all we had available to us were closed heal Cressi fins (see below). Couldn't really attach fin tethers to those (hell, there wasn't even a leg rope/board leash back then and the rubber was so thin it would likely rip out if you drilled a hole) and I would commonly use my girl friends old nylons as fin socks to prevent chaffing and blistering.

In my ideal world the discussion of flippers would be more in-line with the discussion of our boards... flex/stiffness, length and width and thickness of the fin's blade, foot pocket, distance/width of the heel to foot pocket, elasticity of the heel strap, weight, etc.

</rant off>

nomastomas wrote:I can't speak for all prone riders, but I know what works for me. I've done a lot of research on fins and what amazes me is the lack of consensus. Some see a set of fins as too heavy others don't regard the same fins as heavy at all. Some see a set of fins as having a painful foot pocket, and others see the same fins as perfectly comfortable. I've worn Churchills, Duck Feet, UDTs, DaFins and the Getaways. Haven't tried Vipers, guess I'll have too

When you wear the O'Neil Ninjas, do you wear a larger fin than when barefoot? I just ordered a pair of 2mm booties from Patagucci that look very much like the Ninjas, with a very thin, no wrap-around sole. I hoping that these will slip into my UDTs easier.

No I Wear the same fins from summer 2mm heal-less heal-less fin sick in the summer up to 4mm fin socks in coldest winter. only things i have found wont fit is a actual surf boot with a thick sole. but the ninjas are fine.

I would says Mike stewart vipers are most similar to a Churchills, (dont confuse these with standard vipers)

Might feet are USA 9 and I wear the L 10-12's,

http://sciencebodyboards.net/accessorie ... ot-vipers/

Eeeek! Cressi ("Rondine"?) full-foot dive fins! Remember when Surfer used to run ads for some kind of fin saver strap for those things? Good dive fins though. Although the image of Rod in his girlfriend's old nylons may warp my mind forever...

Once the Churchill patent expired it seemed like every fin manufacturer started offering a "similar" design including Viper/MS. Some added tweaks, the best of which appear to be drains at the bottom of the foot pockets instead of midway. Some appear to have different materials and I've physically seen one product that breaks a bit at the bottom of the pocket. I had too much time on my hands last year and spent some of it contemplating a new pair of fins should the "ifs and whens" line up. My old Ducks were flopping around on my feet. There aren't a whole lot of places near me where I can physically try on a variety of surf fins. Did try on Da Fin, and Didn't Feel comfortable in them. Traveling down to Orange County wasn't possible and the limited offerings at regular surf shops for bodyboarders were uninspiring.

In the end, in the heat of summer, I just got a pair of Churchill Makapuu fins. Less about a sense of resignation than of acceptance. I can't figure out the bodyboarding world, or at least the bodyboarding "industry". My Duck Feet still work although their failure seems imminent. I can get them anywhere, any time. Same with Churchills. Lower the bar. Nobody on earth cares what fins I use. I'm not trying to impress anybody. I just need enough power to get around and enough comfort to not cripple myself. As bland as these choices may be, they both work well on my feet. They last me for years. If one gets lost, meh, go pick up another pair and keep a spare. It's supposed to be fun and free and easy...and I work hard to keep it that way!

If I was going to buy booties for fins today I'd try these (look at the photo of the sole):

http://www.ebodyboarding.com/wetstuff/b ... ootie.html

And before I ordered them I'd call the shop and tell them what I was looking to do and ask their advice for my type of fins and these booties.

Nels

Nels, those booties look decent with a strong foot padding and good traction for walking. Not sure about all the rocks/pebbles in Central Cal, but in many of the tropical areas we get that sea weedy slipper green stuff growing on the reefs interspersed with the sharp lava and crustaceans, so it is good to have a non-slick bottom. eBobyboarding also carries some good fin tethers, O&E Fin Tethers (Fin Savers) with plenty of strap lenght for wrapping around 3mm of bootie and 3mm of wetsuit, and a pull strap (big help for the really cold numbing water/air).
http://mypaipoboards.org/flippers/fin_teathers_OnE.jpg

I have been using the Creatures of Leisure Neo Sox - High Cut which have been doing a good job for me. Just advise you try them on in-person as the quality control for "sizing" has been inconsistent.

P.S. The nylons were cute!!! Of course, most of the fun was in the removing of the nylons for my use

That bootie from Jay is what I usually wear in the winter with my UDT's for surfing the local beach break.

Sorry to tell you, that sole is not really as tough as it looks and the traction is nothing special, I wouldn't recommend them for doing the rock dance; but they are comfy and not too much $.
The toes always blow out first for me so I've taken to gluing a thin piece of leather across the toe area inside of new booties/fin socks which greatly lengthens their lifetime for me.

My feet are 10 EEE (luau feet) so it's tough finding a bootie /fin combo.

I like the UDT's but my sessions never last more than a couple hours so the extra weight doesn't bother me.. and I wear the largest size but I haven't been able to find soled booties that fit them comfortably so I also have giant pair of da fins that will take a soled bootie for those rare times when I am going someplace rocky but I prefer wearing the UDT's

Thinking about it just now, I am going to get some heavy felt to glue to the bottom of the EB booties! Thanks!

Uncle Grumpy, in keeping with my old tradition of using old nylons... are you considering some nice pink or velvet colored felt for those booties

For the last umpteen years I've used fly fishing wader materials...a fairly cheap pair of neoprene gaiters to cut for fin heel strap mediation and wetsuit repairs if necessary...something that might be more comfortable and durable than leather. Never thought about replacement felt soles for wader boots cemented onto soft booties but that's a fantastic idea. For those who don't fly fish, the felt soles are expressly for use on rocks for traction and are, well, felt...as rigid as whatever they are glued to. They rinse easy and dry quick. Not at all like craft felt though - that stuff would shred like toilet paper.

Nomastomas or others...if you decide to try any of that... I used to get my stuff at Sport Chalet. Not sure if they still carry much neoprene wading gear these days though as neoprene waders seem to have faded from popularity and the internet has risen like Retail Godzilla. If not, I'd check Cabela's or Bass Pro Shop, even Amazon.

Not sure about color...not sure about Rod at this point either but I'd still surf with him...

He he, you just won't want to be taking off in front of me with my nylons and felt'd booties.... hmmm, DaFin makes a nice pink fin.... maybe nice for Rincon Point in Californie?

A quick googley yields several flyfish boot sole replacements for not too much.
I suspect any heavy felt would work but they are already cut to shape.
Might make those low tide days at rocky points not so much a pita..
Gotta give it a try.

I know 2mm fin boots don't work. I found a pair in my truck that I had only used once and thought they might work well for the XL UDTs. Much easier to put on, and protective enough (although heel was open). Biggest concern was keeping the big UDTs on in the OH surf encountered during this morning's session., No problem, stayed on and actually felt pretty snug (thanks to my wide feet). Problem was I found a quarter-sized hole in the sole when I took them off. And these were brand new! Really need that extra thickness in the sole, but then even my 3mm booties have holes in the soles. Felt may be the answer.

Those 3mm sock from ebodybording will have holes in in less than 10 surfs if you walk around in them at all.(been there tried that)

These are the best solution I have ever found, 3mm with a thin rubber sole, had them about 2 years, not worn through them yet and i have to traverse some sharp reefs most surfs.

Beware! I think the new ones dont have the sole any more .

http://www.hsssurf.com/oneill-heat-ninj ... 71-hs.html

I have had the same issue with rapidly wearing fin socks and finally found these that work for me. Decent sole-thin but strong and pretty easy to get
the fins off and on. Good protection when rock dancing and comfortable when kicking.

xcel infinitoid is the brand and model

This is for Nels and Rodntube-- man thanks for reminiscing those Rondine Fins by Cressi Sub
Totally forgot about the Gentle rubber on the feet and best fins for free-diving True Truths
I use to drill hole in the middle front part and slip a string with knot through hole and then tie it around my ankle
Those were really old days/times

generally I Keep fins lubed with Vaseline cream you can by at any dive shop-- keeps them soft, looking new and flexible to original rubber specs
prevents also rubber from cracking in prolonged time use

Final solution...I picked up a pair of Patagonia 2mm booties on sale, that offered no wrap-around sole, just a smooth neoprene upper, with a thin but non-slip rubber sole. The these thinner/slimmer booties make it easier to pull on the UDTs then anything else I've tried, but still not as easy a bare foot. The UDTs are XL size 11-13. I normally where a L (9-10) fin, but the fit is very snug with these booties on. I was initially concerned about the fins coming off, but I've found that taking them off is almost as difficult as putting them on. The durability of the Patagonia's thin sole remains to be seen. The soles of my standard 3mm Patagonias have been ripped to shreds by this winter's conditions, so I'm not very optimistic.