New summer Groveler

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
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bgreen
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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by bgreen » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:56 am

An alternate take. I have a board that I think is too heavy. It's not responsive in smaller conditions and is a momentum board - once it gets going it barges through all manner of sections, collapsing tubes. It is not a lively/responsive board.

Where weight comes from the glass job, a lighter board without a stringer, can have more flex. This is very obvious in the Wegener cork/paulownia board I have. Very thin, low volume boards can also have a lot of flex, not much weight or flotation. They will sit lower in the wave.

In these instances, weight can impact on performance.

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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by CHRISPI » Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:16 am

I believe big wave guns are very heavy.

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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by nomastomas » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:15 pm

Last Fall, I built two identical EPS/Epoxy 10-6 gliders using CNC shaping machine. One for a friend, which was glassed light, with a 1/4" basswood stringer, and weighed in at 17lb. The other for me, which was glassed much heavier with a 5-ply gun stringer (only 11' stringer available at the time), and weighed in at 23lb. Because I surfed with my friend all Fall, I had plenty of opportunity to surf both boards in a variety of conditions. What I found was that in terms of paddling speed, speed on the wave and turning radius, there was no difference. The heavier board was a bit slower when swinging through a wide left-go-right turn, and was markedly slower when swinging around 180* to catch a wave.(I missed several waves because I just couldn't get around quick enough) Both boards were difficult to manage in stiff winds (too much surface area), But I wouldn't say that the heavier board held any advantage in the wind or in the chop. The heavier board was a beast to carry up the beach (especially with windy conditions). All things considered, I preferred the lighter board hands-down, sold the heavier board and have a lighter replacement already at my glasser's.

Big wave guns are heavy primarily to counter the wind coming up the face, and the 1-3' chop that can exist under certain big wave conditions. But, there's a limit to how much weight can be added to a surfboard. A 200lb rider is definitely going to fare better than a 160lb rider in suchheavy conditions, and that's my point.
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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by krusher74 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:54 am

As far a weight goes in a paipo I feel that's way down the list of things that have an effect on it's surfing ability.

length (planing area)
volume
rocker
rail design
Hull design
tail design
Flex.
I would say these make up 99% of how a board works and maybe weight can throw in the last 1%

I think rider weight has more effect that board weight. As we move as one with the board, we are the 95%+ of the weight and a one rider being 155lbs and another being 220lbs has much more effect than a board being 4lbs or 6lbs

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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by nomastomas » Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:02 am

I agree...planing area, volume, bottom & rail contours, tail design, flex and finally, board weight.
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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by belly rider » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:44 pm

Thomas is there an advantage with heavier boards related to inertia ??
Weight gaining speed and carrying it possibly through a longer time period through the wave
its all about the ride

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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by CHRISPI » Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:47 pm

As a small percentage of the total riding weight the board weight cannot have a significant effect on performance . How can you measure it?

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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by nomastomas » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:06 pm

Heavier total load (board+rider) perhaps, but there are so many other variables to consider/control, that it would be well beyond my ability to test.
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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by CHRISPI » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:59 am

How about a heavy rider compared to a light rider on the same board on identical waves with the same experience. Who will be faster, or ride the most distance

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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by rodndtube » Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:11 pm

I detect a noticeable difference in 5# vs 10# paipo boards. My 50-inch boards generally weigh 7 to 8 lbs due to generally heavier glass jobs.
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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:11 pm

rodndtube wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:11 pm
I detect a noticeable difference in 5# vs 10# paipo boards.
I too notice significant differences between light and heavier boards. On paipo, swing weight isn't much of thing the way it is on stand-up esp longboards, but remember, much of the time when riding you are at least partly unweighted which effectively makes the board's weight a bigger part of the equation.

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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by nomastomas » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:33 am

Certainly there are differences between heavy and light boards, its just that speed isn't one of them.
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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by nomastomas » Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:51 pm

Still waiting for some decent waves to test the G6...summertime blues...
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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by krusher74 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:09 pm

I've done a few mods to the summer groveler, moved the leash plug to where I wanted (asked) for it to be installed in the first place. 10" back from the nose.

I also find when I first fit a new desk pad it too sticky and it hard to move up and down the board, this resulted in by my 3rd surf the pad tearing and lifting of the board, I think I had installed it too far back on the tail and the ribs gave to much of an edge to push against.

So I cut the back 2" or so of the pad off and with a sharp knife beveled all the edges.

The last tile i surfed it was in the best conditions I have taken it out on, a 2/3ft reef break.

The extra literage certainly makes for an easier take-off/wave catch, but from there on the board feels odd. my normal sweet spot now feels too far forward making me move up on the board and then that feels too far forward from the tail.

Also on a few bottom turns it felt like the channel I have added was creating drag and would not let me flow out of a bottom turn.

I will keep surfing it and if the drag/bog persists I will try filling in the channel.
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Last edited by krusher74 on Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by rodndtube » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:38 pm

Leash plug is in the correct position now!!
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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by Atlantasurfer » Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:07 pm

That thing is beautiful. It looks fast standing still.

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Re: New summer Groveler

Unread post by krusher74 » Thu Oct 24, 2019 6:13 am

Well I hadn't got out on this board in a while so for a second surf of the day I decided to try it again this time in the best waves I had given it a go in.

And simple answer is it dosent work for me. I feel like i have to get up the front of the board to get over the rocker balance point to get it going, but then move back to the tail the turn. On my smaller board I can do this all from on position. It's not the groveler i wanted it to be and have been back on my trusty wide bodyboard for those surfs.
Intersting on how much affect scaling a CNC file of my normal board just up by 1.5" in length can change so much.

It's up for sale if anyone's interested. I may suit a taller (5.10) rider than me. But a 3ft9.5" its still way shorter than most here use. I'm happy to pass it on cheap as i just put any cash i get into the next experiment and would rather it was riden than sat in my shed.

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