HPD Flex Paipos - Small

What works and what doesn't. Share design ideas, references and contacts for paipo board builders.
airboy808
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HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by airboy808 » Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:07 pm

Paul and I had discussed at length about flex and concepts of flex. I had a purchased a HPD XLPlus from him and took it out a few times. I reported back to him how it compared to my Paipo Nui restored board. I loved the playifulness of my Paipo Nui and the smaller platform. Dims on the Paipo Nui was 30"x23-1/2". I felt I was able to enter turns and keep or gain speed out of turns versus my friend's flat rockered paipo. Flat rockered felt as if it was just stalling and then you needed to flutter kick to get her going again. Very different than the paipo nui which we figured was due to rocker and spoon shape.

So called Paul a few times to discuss a small flex paipo. The XL Plus felt very stiff to me and only really worked in waves with lots of push. Plus it is very cruisey not a turn/burn paipo. At least for me. So when discussing the flex idea with Paul I was basing some of my thoughts on my experiences with the flexspoon I have. Wanted a flex tail paipo and Paul delivered. Tail was super flexy and the overall board center was flexy. Think shaking a cookie sheet and getting that wobble sound.
So here is the HPD SMall Flex V1 brand new out of the box:

Image

And here is a short video of it flexing so you can see the amount of flex and tension needed to make it flex.

http://instagram.com/p/b9yW4qhOHg/#

Paul was stoked and I was stoked. Took her out to a town break and first wave I pearled. And it was fast type of pearl where my feet was in the air haha. Thought about it quick and realized the super flexy tail had negative rockered on me when I placed my weight on the tail.

Think something like this:
Image

Got my next wave and gently put myself on the tail. Kinda found riding on elbows up on the rail reinforced channels. She started to work but felt slow where you could barely out run the foamies. And it did not feel playful in turns as I was expecting. Took the board out for a few days straight and noticed the cracking near the hinge point was starting to happen. Paul said ride it till it breaks since it was a experiment.

Here are some pics of the cracks:

Right rail-
Image

Left rail-
Image

It has gotten worst since the pics above but still flexs. Also did not help that I let someone inexperienced ride it the first session. As I think it would have lasted way longer before the cracks would have showed up.

So had a bunch of sessions on it and reported back to Paul. We spoke and he had an idea he had been wanting to try for a long time. I also shared my love of surfmatting how it is a dynamic machine. So maybe along those lines of blending the two together a little. I told him I am game. So he started construction on V2 Flex Small Paipo. Here is the pic
Image

Have it only in the water once and it was utter crappy day. 1' and below. We have had the shittiest August and longest flat spell ever.
Board flexs through out the whole board so no cracking hinge points and stiffer feel for more speed. But she flexs under your hand when you twist her or put her on the ground and flex her. Really want to try it

Bonus pic - my Paipo Nui
Image




Will report back when I am able to get some waves under her.

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by rodndtube » Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:32 pm

Great report and pics. Looking forward to the updates. Tell Paul that I send my alohas.
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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:56 pm

Love the experimental spirit! My first reaction, halfway through your post, when I saw the instagram vid was, "YIKES!" Had a feeling it was just a it too much. Fiber glass thin enough to flex that much just won't hold up. Wave forces are so much greater than we can tell from dry land and hand flexing. I made various fins and a couple different flex boards over the years and was always surprised by how much bend even very small waves would cause in what felt pretty stiff on land. Almost counterintuitive. Definitely on the right track when you put an idea into real time and "fly it until the wings come off!"

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by spudnut » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:32 am

Thanks for the wonderful pics and ride report. I have been curious about a little flex in the HPD, but that was an insane amount! I came to paipos from mats that Dale made me. The feel of each is so different, but then it is between different mats as well as different paipos. Please keep us informed on what designs that you are working on with Paul. For about a year now he has been saying he has a new design and will give me details in just a few more weeks.

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by airboy808 » Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:31 am

He has a new design available but it is not on the site. It is 40" long 23" nose and 24" at hips/tail. Think body board shape but with spoon nose. Friend got to borrow a demo but there were no waves.

As for the flex Paul suggested we start from most flexy and then stiffen up as we go. So V2 is stiffer all the way around. It's no surfmat per se but being able to twist on it to create a rounder bottom should be interesting.

On a side note I would love to get a Dale mat.

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by GeoffreyLevens » Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:25 am

Too bad Dale is pretty much off the radar. He made flex design "guitar pick" paipo many years ago from carbon fiber. Don't remember much detail though. Also told me on tele that he almost got himself killed once when a glass/flex design failed catastrophically under load in beefy surf. Think razor sharp jagged glass edge flapping around in the white water right next to tender human meat!!!! If you can ever find a way to have conversation with him, I would bet he has detailed written notes stashed somewhere about the build and ride characteristics.

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by Poobah » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:18 am

We step into the Way Back Machine and visit the archives....no photos, but there are descriptions. At one time I copied the photos, but lost them in a hard drive failure. Maybe some old timers here still have some photos?

He used 12 to 15 layers of 4 oz. glass, and then ground the tapers for flex. I think this helps to avoid a hinge point and cracking problems. Interchangable foam deck pads, and even inflatable pads. Good stuff. Anyway...start here:

http://rodndtube.com/paipo/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by Poobah » Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:38 am

And then a couple years later Dale replies at the end of a spoon thread started by Paipo Jim. There's still a drawing on this one. He also talks about corner shapes on this one. More good stuff:

http://rodndtube.com/paipo/forum/viewto ... highlight=

Long image...don't forget to scroll.
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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by airboy808 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:49 am

Really wish Dale was still building watercraft.

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by bgreen » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:18 pm

Is this the board you saw?
black paipo 1 (300 x 216).jpg
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Bob

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by airboy808 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:36 pm

That looks fun and nuts. Looks like super soft flex.

Wonder how a body board deck and surfmat bottom where mat rails wrap around body board deck rails. Think SurfFoils was working on something like that or something similar at one time.

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by Poobah » Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:41 am

Bob, excellent. That's the triangular flex paipo that Dale made.

It's probably a good time to mention that aspiring mad scientists can have fun modifying old bodyboards with just two simple tools...a long serrated bread knife and an 80 grit sanding block. What? You don't have a bodyboard in a cubit lenth? Fix that ASAP.

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by OG-AZN » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:02 pm

^^ Don't forget the clothes iron with some wax paper as a sealing /shaping tool and some contact cement. I did a lot of modifications to stock bodyboards back in the day. The 80's - early 90's boards tended to fall apart fast or just plain didn't work, so there was a lot of raw material laying around. "Kick boards" made from broken or flexed out boogies, concave decks & bottoms, reshaped rails, bottom skin/rail skin transplants, even retrofitted stringers and mesh.

Anyone ever try the HPD "SR" paipo that's advertised on the site? The concept seems sound. That board didn't have enough flex? Riding semi flexible traditional plywood paipos the last few years opened up a whole new range of performance possibilities that didn't exist with the seemingly inflexible ( thick ply or glassed) paipos I rode as a kid. I like the amount of flex I get riding an un-reinforced 1/2" thick plywood board, but it's not durable enough and gets too flexy in heavy situations. Reinforcing with epoxy works as a decent compromise, but it makes the board stiffer than I like for performance. The bodyboard shape HPD sounds interesting. Is that board made with more flex too?

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by airboy808 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:31 pm

Never tried the SR but Paul shared when designing the SR they worked from stiffest and took a little material out to make it flex. Then a little more.

Versus on the V1 above he started with the most flex he could make in a paipo. Tail on the V1 is thin like 1/8" versus the upper rails by the nose or 3/8". Don't have it front of me just rough guess from memory.

Plywood or any wood based paipo I think has special properties due to a natural element of the Earth being used in another natural element of the Earth (not to get all mystical). In my minds that why I make up they work so well. Got another paipo that is made out of plywood by my boss. Pretty flat rocker and with turned up rails and similar shape to the paipo nui planeshape. It works good but miss the rocker of the paipo nui. You can pull on it to flex it but it still stiffer than the V1 or V2.

Will hopefully have continued waves for V2 testing this weekend. The new HPD Paipo looks fun. Saw it in person but never got to try it.

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by kage » Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:09 pm

I had the SR before switching to the smaller version. The flex is nothing as extreme as what's shown in the photos above. Some of the glass in the center section is removed - turns feel softer and maybe a little easier to get into. I preferred it over the regular paipo, but I like the small more than either. The small seems to allow me to turn more quickly, and just overall more nimble on the face. All that may be an effect of my size - smallish - a bigger guy might get more flex out of the SR.
Still have mine, it has a few dings I'd like to repair before I put it back in the water, but if OG or anyone would like to try it at the next gathering I'll be sure to have it ready.

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by bgreen » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:29 am

I trawled through my e-mails and saw some posts from Paul about experimenting with flex in 2009. Sean Ross was keen for a board with more flex but I didn't hear nay more reports.


Surffoils has been experimenting with flex .

Bob

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by airboy808 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 3:45 pm

Took flex v2 paipo out to K-bay marine base and got a few in some shorebreak type conditions. Closeout city. But v2 worked better than the std HPD small that my friend had out there. Only slightly better but better. To short of a ride most times. We are waiting on another pair up session so we can swap. V2 has less float when it just sits in the water compared to a std HPD small.

v1 is being ridden by a friend who is 50lbs lighter than me and he rides it in town. Even with the cracks the tail and board is holding up fine. Very tricky to ride than a regular paipo. You need to ride on your elbows basically and let the tail do its thing. Big bellys do not work with this v1 paipo has a belly would push the tail down and create drag. Want to get the v1 back, cut the pad down the middle about an 1/2" or so, and add glass on some fiberglass rope down the middle nose to tail. Would stiffen the tail from being a flap and let the corners flex more. Hoping like going from a solid axle rear to a independent suspension rear. Keep you folks posted.

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by bgreen » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:26 pm

Interesting to see how it rides in other conditions.

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by airboy808 » Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:15 pm

Took v2 out to town side a few times recently but it has been crappy conditions.

v2 is definitely more user friendly than v1 and does not have the handbrake gut feature. Very playful compared to the HPD XL. Playful meaning being able to turn on a dime and torque. Rode friend's small HPD to compare and little better turn wise due to the flex I make up.

On a side note, v1 is still holding up with cracks and all. The materials Paul uses seems to be really strong even in the thinnest construction he has ever done. Trying to arrange a prone day with the boys so can do swap outs on the same day/conditions to see true differences.

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Re: HPD Flex Paipos - Small

Unread post by OG-AZN » Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:51 pm

Thanks for all the test ride reports. Do you know if the new XP board has some flex in it? Eastside is getting some trade wind swell right now, hopefully you can get some test rides on that. Speaking of the Eastside, I saw in one of your earlier posts you rode your paipo on Base. You have a leash on that board? I surfed Base a couple times in Feb, and got sort of barred when the lifeguard saw me with a ply paipo one day. Back in the day they were never that strict about the "leash law" at North, only at Pyramid. The lifeguard told me I would have to come in if I ever lost my board. Didn't want any hassle, so I ended up bodysurfing. It was one of those "half-ass" Kona wind days, mostly pretty close outs on the shallow sandbar, but there were occasional makeable ones.
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